Calling with small pocket pairs -EV?

[valloAA]

Yeah a vague question I know.

But I'm a fan of watching the replays of Sunday Million with hole cards exposed, and it amazes me how often the following happens:

8-9 players remain
Av Stack = 20BB approx
EP (av stack) raises 2.5BB
LP (av stack, holding 22-77) folds

This is a common sequence of play. I would have thought that with 20BB, calling here would be profitable. Comments?

[TurnRiva]

Calling would be beyond terrible. fwiw you want ~20:1 to set mine with small pairs as a decent yardstick

[valloAA]

Really? I thought it was more like 8:1.

[DaNRL]

Still a fold then no?

[TurnRiva]

8:1 is around the odds you will flop a set, that doesnt factor in the times he wont stack off postflop

[SwoopAE]

Really? I thought it was more like 8:1.

If they stack off 100% of the time which is never the case.

Need to factor in things like stack size.

In most cases when you have a PP and under 25bb effective and you're facing a raise, you'll either be shoving or folding preflop.

[FSL009]

I always work of 11% so dont put in more than 11% of the pot and his stack. I've not done the maths just read in HOH that a set happens on the flop 11% of the time that you hold PPs.

take into account that your not likely to get his stack every time i like the 20:1 as a yardstick.

[steve_farha]

What are you cutting off low pocket pairs at though?

[FSL009]

I would think that depends on the raises raising range. with no other info I think i am folding anything 88s and below, maybe 99s as well.

[TurnRiva]

Pairs you can fold or shove will change depending on table position and stats/reads more than anything