shove or fold?

[Suicide_KINGS98]

PokerStars Game #60545963189: Tournament #383680341, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (75/150) - 2011/04/08 22:19:57 ET
Table '383680341 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: jrelwood (2406 in chips)
Seat 2: BDNannac (5621 in chips)
Seat 3: hero (8194 in chips)
Seat 4: car_hauler (10421 in chips)
Seat 5: alfie106 (4154 in chips)
Seat 6: Vphillips60 (3790 in chips)
Seat 7: iriedog420 (1042 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: Rèdje (11313 in chips)
jrelwood: posts the ante 20
BDNannac: posts the ante 20
hero: posts the ante 20
car_hauler: posts the ante 20
alfie106: posts the ante 20
Vphillips60: posts the ante 20
iriedog420: posts the ante 20
Rèdje: posts the ante 20
jrelwood: posts small blind 75
BDNannac: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [3c 3s]
hero: calls 150
car_hauler: folds
alfie106: folds
Vphillips60: calls 150
iriedog420: folds
Rèdje: raises 150 to 300
jrelwood: calls 225
BDNannac: folds
hero: calls 150
Vphillips60: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [2s 5s 4c]
jrelwood: checks
hero: bets 890
Vphillips60: folds
Rèdje: calls 890
jrelwood: folds
*** TURN *** [2s 5s 4c] [3d]
hero: checks
Rèdje: bets 3300

[valloAA]

You have 10 clean outs to beat his straight, and 4 outs to chop.

Its a clear fold.

[Strong Play]

[QUOTE=Suicide_KINGS98;273580]PokerStars Game #60545963189: Tournament #383680341, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (75/150) - 2011/04/08 22:19:57 ET
Table '383680341 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: jrelwood (2406 in chips)
Seat 2: BDNannac (5621 in chips)
Seat 3: hero (8194 in chips)
Seat 4: car_hauler (10421 in chips)
Seat 5: alfie106 (4154 in chips)
Seat 6: Vphillips60 (3790 in chips)
Seat 7: iriedog420 (1042 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: Rèdje (11313 in chips)
jrelwood: posts the ante 20
BDNannac: posts the ante 20
hero: posts the ante 20
car_hauler: posts the ante 20
alfie106: posts the ante 20
Vphillips60: posts the ante 20
iriedog420: posts the ante 20
Rèdje: posts the ante 20
jrelwood: posts small blind 75
BDNannac: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [3c 3s]
hero: calls 150
[/QUOTE]

Talk me through this part please.

[steve_farha]

You have 10 clean outs to beat his straight, and 4 outs to chop.

Its a clear fold.

4 outs to a chop?

[C_Bomb]

He's assuming the Villain has an Ace rather than a 6 or a 7.

6 assumes you chop 6 high straight.

Strong Play - Is this a raise fold spot pre?

If so 2, 2.5, 3x other?

I'm thinking fold as played. I'm not convinced we can chop if a 6 drops. Its not worth putting in 20BB IMO to hope for a chop at this stage.

[STiG]

Strong Play - Is this a raise fold spot pre?

If so 2, 2.5, 3x other?

Probably a fold pre utg.

[higher wattage]

Probably a fold pre utg.

nope raise pre is fine 300-375 is good here

[Stick]

He's assuming the Villain has an Ace rather than a 6 or a 7.

4 outs to a chop?

[C_Bomb]

4 outs to a chop?

7 outs?

I don't know I didn't say 4 in the first place. (or read the post properly)

[FSL009]

Yeah I dont like the shove, and I dont like the call, and i dont like a fold so that leaves very little left to do but cry and fold.

Its a pretty yuk spot, but its pretty close equity wise i think. I didnt stove it but its probably worth looking into more.

If my maths is correct your getting 3-1 for a call and implied odds probably give you 4-1 but you would need 4-1 i think to justify the call as your likely not getting paid if the board pairs by a good opponent but then we would need to know more about the opponent to assess that.

The unknown is the %s of him having a hand that you already beat. I think its pretty limited against a good opponent but if he is a bit scalely then maybe you get over the line with potential holidings down to two pair, other sets etc.

I think the conservative approach is to fold. but maybe that is why i min cash in tourneys alot.

Yuk spot. yuk, yuk, yuk.

oh and - I raise pre if i decide to play the hand, I will play the hand in that spot maybe 40-50% of the time with the stack you have, I dont play it at all once i drop below m of 20 and then will play it everytime with a shove if i hit like m of 7. But you gotta raise it up at least pot IMO.