betting into the raiser on the flop

[davidwrunner]

Not sure whether this is just a low limit trend but everyone seems to want to bet into the raiser on the flop at the moment - but in a badly transparent way most of the time....first example the bb bets the pot at me - virtually saying i have nothing and hope u missed too. verestPoker Game #2732474695: Table Tokyo-14 - $1.00/$2.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 00:42:05 - 2008/01/29Seat 1: _John__Doe_ ($24.00)Seat 2: -BKA- ($209.90)Seat 3: davidwrunner ($96.84)Seat 4: GamblerIII ($45.00)Seat 5: stackme ($198.00)Seat 6: Pechcore29 ($194.00)Seat 7: ZEQUIKIKI ($74.05)Seat 8: kelben ($132.70)Seat 9: Espectral ($244.20)Seat 10: BluffmanDI ($348.80)ZEQUIKIKI posts the small blind of $1.00kelben posts the big blind of $2.00The button is in seat #6*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to davidwrunner[Ac Th]Espectral foldsBluffmanDI folds_John__Doe_ folds-BKA- foldsdavidwrunner raises to $7.00GamblerIII foldsstackme foldsPechcore29 foldsZEQUIKIKI foldskelben calls $5.00*** FLOP *** [2c Jd Kc]kelben bets $15.00davidwrunner calls $15.00*** TURN *** [2c Jd Kc] [Ks]kelben checksdavidwrunner bets $21.00kelben calls $21.00*** RIVER *** [2c Jd Kc Ks] [7c]kelben checksdavidwrunner checks*** SHOW DOWN ***kelben shows [Qh Td]davidwrunner shows [Ac Th]*** SUMMARY ***Board: [2c Jd Kc Ks 7c]davidwrunner collects $84.00Second example ...this time the bet is smaller and seems to want callers/action - looking for a raise. Smells of a big hand...easy laydown? EverestPoker Game #2710322609: Table Moroni-27 - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:33:05 - 2008/01/24Seat 1: Mr_Plomb ($92.00)Seat 2: schlepschis ($17.00)Seat 3: sakraf ($47.50)Seat 4: Mick1607 ($7.50)Seat 5: davidwrunner ($102.70)Seat 6: silleg ($201.45)Seat 7: mariacris08 ($58.60)Seat 8: McRutiger ($59.40)Seat 9: Lemenex250 ($19.50)Seat 10: AceofSpade ($91.65)Lemenex250 posts the small blind of $0.50AceofSpade posts the big blind of $1.00The button is in seat #8*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to davidwrunner[Kh Kc]Mr_Plomb foldsschlepschis foldssakraf foldsMick1607 foldsdavidwrunner raises to $3.50silleg calls $3.50mariacris08 foldsMcRutiger calls $3.50Lemenex250 foldsAceofSpade calls $2.50*** FLOP *** [5c 2h Tc]AceofSpade bets $5.50davidwrunner raises to $13.00silleg foldsMcRutiger calls $13.00AceofSpade raises to $88.15 and is all-in

[Jimy Wong]

Why you post this?? this standard stuff like hit on picture

[TheSharkBoy]

Actually, to be honest, the first play is perfectly fine.He leads out into a heads up pot, semi-bluffing with a legitamite draw. You call, potentially drawing semidead to a king-rag. His mistake is checking the turn. Your call shows weakness, and he can fire on the turn, and still have outs to the straight if he gets called. Your bet is just weird, to be honest...The second one depends entirely on what the guy has. If he has a set, he knows he's getting called by an overpair. If he has top-top, he might be putting you and the caller on a flush draw and hopes to price you out with a massive shove.Betting into a raiser can be a bluff, semi-bluff, a blocker bet, a bet to confuse the preflop raiser... to say that the bet was his way of saying he has nothing and that he hoped you missed means you have no idea what you're talking about...There is nothing wrong with betting into the raiser, in the first example he made the right play and you made a bad play and it just so happenned he gave up on the turn.I'm not sure what you were trying to prove here, but all I have learned is that you have thrown out betting into the raiser as a shady way to cover up a bad hand, when that is completely incorrect.

[davidwrunner]

Mr Wong - agree with yoy - this board was becoming dead as dodoird so need to pst something!!!Sharkboy - I didnt put any player stats with the hh but that would have made my play look better. My play against kelben looks bad but he is a loose fish whose fav play is to pot the flop and then shutdown - except if he has a hand and then he checks. Against most players its an instafold.In the second hand I lay down and he has a set of 10's - the other guy calls with qq

[TheSharkBoy]

See now it makes more sense.The second hand then the correct play is made. Tough to overcall there with a player behind.In the first though, it's still a risky play. Unless you can put him on absolutely nothing for sure, you can't call. And you certainly cannot bet the turn. If he has nothing, he might fire again on the river, and you can call thinking he missed, but i don't think that betting the turn gives you any info at all, him check-calling there could just as easily be nothing as it could be something weak enough to float for the river, even a pair of twos.I still stand by my point that the leading into the raiser can be effective, although I will say it is entirely situational, which it is important to know who can and cannot be bluffed at your table.

[HelloJohnny]

WTF at your analysis of the first hand.Second hand is a hero-fold brag post. Am i right? (Incidently I like how villain played this because it's exactly how most people play a FD).