$2/3NL Crown

[TheGusPair]

Hi, new to the forums, just wanted to get some opinions on a couple of hands I played at Crown, the first of which I know I did the wrong thing, the other I'm really seeking opinions on the the optimal way to play it.

Not sure if it makes a difference but the table had just started up in the last half an hour, was a weekday at about 3-4pm. Full table of 9.

1)Stacks are all about $200, table has just started in last 10 hands.
I'm in SB w/ KK.
Folds around to C/O, who raises to $15.
Folds to me, and I just flat called.
OK, big mistake I know, but here's my plan and you can tell me why I'm wrong: If the flop comes down an A, I'm probably going to check-fold to a decent c-bet. Other than that, I'm check-raising hoping that I've disguised my hand and he'll call/shove.

Wow, I can already see the massive holes in that just writing it down, but I'd like other opinions. Would anyone ever try this kind of trapping play? What situation would it have to be?

Let's say I 3-bet to $50 and he calls, what do I do when/if an A drops on flop?


2) Now my stack was about $150-160, biggest stack was still only about $250. All are pretty equal.
I'm in the C/O with Ad7d.
Two folds, then 2 limpers and a fold around to me, I limped, the BTN limped, SB completed and BB checked. Pot size $18.
Flop: 5d6d7c
SB check, BB leads for $10, the two limpers PF call, and I call. Mistake?

I'll continue the rest of the hand later.

[ShiRi]

Both hands played as bad as you can possibly play.

I suggest you pack up, spend the $200 on lobster upstairs and go home.

[davidwrunner]

Gus,
hand 1 - slow playing is ok but for 2/3 at crown its leaving value behind especially if you are a little new to the game. Pop it to 45 and bet the flop - ace or no ace.

hand 2 - i like a raise preflop here again - you can either play flop lotto or raise and narrow the field to allow u to play some poker. Already $11 in the pot so make it $16 to go. As played i prefer a call on the flop rather than pushing hard and maybe racing against 2p or a str8 or whatever.

[TheSharkBoy]

Can I get odds on whether this is Tim or not?

Brent?

[Stick]

Level...

No wait!

Level...

[TheGusPair]

Well, thanks for the one useful reply davidwrunner.

Yeah I look at the KK play now and realise I was just too nervous, I think ShiRi is right but hey, if not for bad players, how would you guys make money? Anyway, probably shouldn't have posted that one, pretty clear it was a dumb play.

So hand two, I'm raising A7s in the C/O PF with limpers? I could definitely see the value in it if it was an open raise, but don't the majority of hands that call beat me? I spose unless it's the button I do have position at least... Hmm OK. I mean, knowing how the rest of the hand played out, it would have been the right move...

OK, say I raised there, if the Button 3 bets to 45 or whatever, I fold? What about if someone else does the 3 bet, call with position; fold? Do I really want to play a big pot with A7s?

Anyway, back to reality, after I called, the button raised to $50, and everyone else folds. Pot odds wise, I can't get away from this hand can I? Call or shove? If I call, can I possibly fold the turn if board pairs 5/6 or a 4 or 8 hits?

Shark Boy et al, usless you know me personally, I'm not who you're thinking of. And I know no one who is interested enough in poker to post here.

[luckyshades]

No you can't ever fold here. Ever.

Even if he shows you the flopped straight you are still 40% to win the hand.

45% to win if he shows you 2 pair, and you are a favourite if he shows you TT-KK.

Don't fold.

[somemenace]

Gus,

Firstly I don't mind the first limp here with KK.

I have made a similar play with QQ's on $2/$3 before too. AT raised to $15 on the button and I flatted from the BB.

He got his stack in on a T-high flop and didn't for a second consider I had an overpair.

I have been outplayed in a similar fashion too where I raised in late position with JJ's and someone in the BB just flatted with KK's. On a 9-high board we got our stacks in and of course I didn't hit my 2 outer.

So I don't think the play was all that bad.

With the second hand, I'm getting my stack in here.

I don't mind the limp pre-flop, because someone can definitely be limping with a better A, but you more or less saw a dream flop for your hand.

You're not in that bad a shape against most hands -

Against an overpair ~ 55%
Against two pair (depending if he has a 7 or not) ~ 50%
Against a straight (no diamond) ~ 40%
Against a straight (two diamonds) ~ 32%
Against a set ~ 30%

Looking at the limp pre-flop and then the re-raise, he is most likely protecting a hand. So he could have something like 2 pair 76 or a pair with an open ended straight draw 87. A set is a possibility, but the nut straight not likely. I think he value bets a little better there if he has a straight e.g. makes it $30 or $40, why scare off all value?!

Based on that - I shove. Also create some fold equity as he may even fold 2 pair to a shove.

How did the hand actually play out?

Originally Posted by TheGusPair

Well, thanks for the one useful reply davidwrunner.

Yeah I look at the KK play now and realise I was just too nervous, I think ShiRi is right but hey, if not for bad players, how would you guys make money? Anyway, probably shouldn't have posted that one, pretty clear it was a dumb play.

So hand two, I'm raising A7s in the C/O PF with limpers? I could definitely see the value in it if it was an open raise, but don't the majority of hands that call beat me? I spose unless it's the button I do have position at least... Hmm OK. I mean, knowing how the rest of the hand played out, it would have been the right move...

OK, say I raised there, if the Button 3 bets to 45 or whatever, I fold? What about if someone else does the 3 bet, call with position; fold? Do I really want to play a big pot with A7s?

Anyway, back to reality, after I called, the button raised to $50, and everyone else folds. Pot odds wise, I can't get away from this hand can I? Call or shove? If I call, can I possibly fold the turn if board pairs 5/6 or a 4 or 8 hits?

Shark Boy et al, usless you know me personally, I'm not who you're thinking of. And I know no one who is interested enough in poker to post here.

[LukeM]

i think its fine to smooth call p/f an aggro player with KK on 2/3 because often they are going to stack off really light when you have them crushed. If they are passive its obviously alot better to get alot of money in preflop as they will just dump it if they miss the flop.

in hand 2, i think there is alot of value to raise that flop!

[amoladora]

Originally Posted by LukeM

i think its fine to smooth call p/f an aggro player with KK on 2/3 because often they are going to stack off really light when you have them crushed. If they are passive its obviously alot better to get alot of money in preflop as they will just dump it if they miss the flop.

Or they will have you crushed with their A3 when the obligatory ace falls on the flop. This is horrible.... Especially as you are out of position. Without raising how will you know where you are in the hand?

Say the flop comes 4,7,8 rainbow, you bet, he raises and you shove.... Are you going to cry about a bad beat when he rolls over 56 or 78 or 44?

What if the flop was Ad,Qd,3c... you check and the villain bets 3/4 pot. You call. Turn is a blank, villain bets 3/4 pot again - what can you do in the spot? Any good and/or aggro player is betting any ace, queen, flush draw, straight draw and air (sometimes). The point being alot of the time you will probably have the best hand but there is no way you can call 2 streets without a rocksolid read....