What to do with QQ here...

[Murphmaester]

Am posting the full hand because as you see there is no result and my question is linked to my decision here post flop.

Sorry if this is another stupid question but there are decisions I make that while I am sure are correct I am never 100% sure I am making the best play, and if i don't bother to check now and again I am going to continue to make the wrong decisions.

Q1 - I think I should have raised pre, my thinking was trying not to make the pot too big I am forced to call after the flop as I find QQ, like JJ very difficult hands to play post flop. A couple of hands before the initial raiser won a pot after calling a raise with A 10, I have to assume any half decent Ace is in his range.

My real question though is with four in the pot am I right to be folding this? or should I be raising to see if he actually does have an Ace?

Heads up I would probably raise him, but with four players seeing the flop surely I am right to assume someone has an Ace?

What do you guys do here?


PokerStars Game #37355744614: Tournament #242010202, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (4000/8000) - 2009/12/30 3:23:12 AEST [2009/12/29 11:23:12 ET]
Table '242010202 36' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 3: Murphmaester (473715 in chips)
Seat 4: BJDarter (313299 in chips)
Seat 5: Sekkingstaad (454324 in chips)
Seat 6: hahnetwh111 (486944 in chips)
Seat 7: b4bmm (519691 in chips)
Seat 8: kommonsense (537428 in chips)
Murphmaester: posts the ante 800
BJDarter: posts the ante 800
Sekkingstaad: posts the ante 800
hahnetwh111: posts the ante 800
b4bmm: posts the ante 800
kommonsense: posts the ante 800
Murphmaester: posts small blind 4000
BJDarter: posts big blind 8000

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Murphmaester
Sekkingstaad: folds
hahnetwh111: calls 8000
b4bmm: folds
kommonsense: raises 19000 to 27000
Murphmaester: calls 23000
BJDarter: calls 19000
hahnetwh111: calls 19000

*** FLOP ***
Murphmaester: checks
BJDarter: checks
hahnetwh111: checks
kommonsense: bets 56000
Murphmaester: folds
BJDarter: folds
hahnetwh111: folds
Uncalled bet (56000) returned to kommonsense
kommonsense collected 112800 from pot



A couple of hands afterwards with only 16 players left in I was SB with , a couple of re-raises and I found myself all in against the BB with

Of course the board came down and I cried myself to sleep last night.

[Al]

Am posting the full hand because as you see there is no result and my question is linked to my decision here post flop.

I think pre is the problem not post.

[Murphmaester]

I can't argue with you, when I looked at it this morning my thoughts were I should have raised. But I am not 100% sure what that would have told me. It is spots like this that is costing me more FT places, stuff that is simple and obvious to you more experienced guys.

I know he can call a raise with any ace and have no reason to assume he would not in this case. So if I do raise it up and he calls I am still folding the flop right? what if he re-raises me, or more likely shoves? I would put him on an AK and in this position, this close to the FT I would still be folding my QQ even if I knew he was on an AK. So the only thing I actually want to happen is that he (and everyone else) folds to my 4bet pre. I am not going to shove cos he is gonna call with AK and probably AQ too.

Surely just flat calling and hoping to see a rag flop has merits here? If a Q hits I double up, if I fold I have lost little.

hahaha, I should get this moved to the beginners thread!


I need to watch some videos, I think i am too timid sometimes and need to man up a bit.

[USUALSUSPECT]

PokerStars Game #37355744614: Tournament #242010202, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (4000/8000) - 2009/12/30 3:23:12 AEST [2009/12/29 11:23:12 ET]
Table '242010202 36' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 3: Murphmaester (473715 in chips)
Seat 4: BJDarter (313299 in chips)
Seat 5: Sekkingstaad (454324 in chips)
Seat 6: hahnetwh111 (486944 in chips)
Seat 7: b4bmm (519691 in chips)
Seat 8: kommonsense (537428 in chips)
Murphmaester: posts the ante 800
BJDarter: posts the ante 800
Sekkingstaad: posts the ante 800
hahnetwh111: posts the ante 800
b4bmm: posts the ante 800
kommonsense: posts the ante 800
Murphmaester: posts small blind 4000
BJDarter: posts big blind 8000

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Murphmaester
Sekkingstaad: folds
hahnetwh111: calls 8000
b4bmm: folds
kommonsense: raises 19000 to 27000
Murphmaester: raises 73000 to 100000

imo......

[Eagle Owl]

Hi Murph

Only posting as part of the learning process, but I would be tempted to re-raise here, your in a tough spot, but a continuation bet with an A on the board doesnt mean a lot here he would do it with JJ for ex to see where he is at..(in the opinion of a beginner) A re-raise may win it, or tell you where your at...

Like I said a beginner offering an opinion in with the intention of learning.

All the best

(after posting is see this was suggested Usual Suspect while I was writing... so I feel better!)

[Strong Play]

make it 83-87k preflop...

[wrckngbll]

although its a $5 tourney there are a lot of chips in play. presumably at least the first couple spots pay $1k +. i think its important to at least consider playing hands diferently depending on the stakes and stack sizes.

at times i can be quite nitty and have made some ridc -ve EV folds when i am 2nd in chips and the chip leader is running amok. BUT in these cases i have had the other runners covered by PLENTY and we are talking about $10k + for 1st and maybe 2nd also. so i will be choosey what hands i play aginst the CL.

in your scenario u are middle of the pack. i really dont like re raising to 80-100k and then having a tough spot on the flop. it really drives me mad if a weak ace got there ie AT OR 33 hits trips (he is overpaying to set mine if u make it 85k+ which makes me even madder!). if u fold when the ace comes u are down the bottom of the totem pole and may well be steaming... not ideal.

I am shoving... he has raised pre flop... so what! hes on the button ffs. not saying the button never gets a hand BUT has he been active? does he always raise button if folded to him? whats his image of you? in any case i need an exceptionally good reason to not shove this hand. esp given the prize pool, and the stack sizes.

you alluded to FT, you have 6 at yr table so i guess there are 12-13 runners left. busitng here sucks... may as well as finish 100th but i believe opponent folds everything except AA, KK AND AK. If he calls with AQ or TT hes a fking moron. sometimes morons get lucky so be it.

how do u not shove here Joel? honestly? r u fking kidding me?

not a personal attack just very very surprised.

[wrckngbll]

theres 47k in the pot already with the blinds, one limper and the buttons raise so its not as ridic 50 bb overbet as it seems....