better to reraise or call for value?

[aids2480]

Stage #1946807641: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2010-03-11 08:11:05 (ET)
Table: CONGO HWY (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - HERO ($56.97 in chips)
Seat 4 - WEASSY_E ($50.25 in chips)
Seat 5 - NYWARE ($49.80 in chips)
Seat 6 - BOREAPHIL ($137.36 in chips)
Seat 1 - STMAXIK ($50 in chips)
Seat 2 - LUCKY_SPACE ($50 in chips)
WEASSY_E - Posts small blind $0.25
NYWARE - Posts big blind $0.50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [10c Ac]
BOREAPHIL - Folds
STMAXIK - Raises $1.75 to $1.75
LUCKY_SPACE - Folds
HERO - Calls $1.75
WEASSY_E - Folds
NYWARE - Folds
*** FLOP *** [Ah 3c 7c]
STMAXIK - Bets $3.85
HERO - Raises $9.40 to $9.40
STMAXIK - Folds

villian is 20/12 cbet 59 cbet turn 63

Just wondering is it better for value to call here?keep worse hands in.
My thoughts are if I just called he probably would have bet turn and I had any draws covered.
And if he pushes flop I am snap calling.

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Originally Posted by aids2480

Stage #1946807641: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2010-03-11 08:11:05 (ET)
Table: CONGO HWY (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - HERO ($56.97 in chips)
Seat 4 - WEASSY_E ($50.25 in chips)
Seat 5 - NYWARE ($49.80 in chips)
Seat 6 - BOREAPHIL ($137.36 in chips)
Seat 1 - STMAXIK ($50 in chips)
Seat 2 - LUCKY_SPACE ($50 in chips)
WEASSY_E - Posts small blind $0.25
NYWARE - Posts big blind $0.50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [10c Ac]
BOREAPHIL - Folds
STMAXIK - Raises $1.75 to $1.75
LUCKY_SPACE - Folds
HERO - Calls $1.75
WEASSY_E - Folds
NYWARE - Folds
*** FLOP *** [Ah 3c 7c]
STMAXIK - Bets $3.85
HERO - Raises $9.40 to $9.40
STMAXIK - Folds

villian is 20/12 cbet 59 cbet turn 63

Just wondering is it better for value to call here?keep worse hands in.
My thoughts are if I just called he probably would have bet turn and I had any draws covered.
And if he pushes flop I am snap calling.

Definately call.

[Tahfan]

Originally Posted by aids2480

Just wondering is it better for value to call here?keep worse hands in.
My thoughts are if I just called he probably would have bet turn and I had any draws covered.
And if he pushes flop I am snap calling.

So given your rationale for calling, what was the thinking behind the big raise?

Calling on this board is def the right option here. Let him bluff the turn and river!

[djkelly69]

nh (given you said you are getting it in if he shoves). uber draws should be played like sets a majority of the time.

villain is not going to "bluff" the turn and river. he is going to value bet better hands and shut down if he had air/not much or the board gets scary.

our hand has the most equity against his range on the flop, so we want to get the money in now before we either lose equity, or cards come that will kill our action.

just unlucky he had nothing here, as it is unlikely he folded TP to a single raise in a heads up pot.

calling is not "def the right option". would you just call with sets here?

ps. dont post results, they skew opinions.

[USUALSUSPECT]

Originally Posted by djkelly69

nh (given you said you are getting it in if he shoves). uber draws should be played like sets a majority of the time.

villain is not going to "bluff" the turn and river. he is going to value bet better hands and shut down if he had air/not much or the board gets scary.

our hand has the most equity against his range on the flop, so we want to get the money in now before we either lose equity, or cards come that will kill our action.

just unlucky he had nothing here, as it is unlikely he folded TP to a single raise in a heads up pot.

calling is not "def the right option". would you just call with sets here?

ps. dont post results, they skew opinions.

+1 ... good example of simple effective advice...

[aids2480]

tahnks for advice first post blunders lol
i raised him hoping he would push his big ace hands as that def. in his range and i could snap call.I see this flop with my cards I want to get money in asap. as I knew I could be calling with a dominated hand pre.
my line pre is two clubs money goes in!
Ace high board,no club draw be careful
It was only later and checking his stats I was wondering if best line for value in this situation against this opponent with pos.
thinking something like 85% raising and 15% smoothcalling

Oh and I don't think he immediately will bluff turn river as he pretty passive but maybe sometimes he will bet river if no clubs hit

I agree with playing uber draws like sets and I'm never calling with set here

[HelloJohnny]

Originally Posted by aids2480

i raised him hoping he would push his big ace hands as that def. in his range and i could snap call.I see this flop with my cards I want to get money in asap.

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing As 7c 4c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Tc 453 45.76 525 53.03 12 1.21 0.464
Ah Kh 525 53.03 453 45.76 12 1.21 0.536

Not saying you made the wrong play, but keep in mind these numbers!

[djkelly69]

Originally Posted by HelloJohnny

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing As 7c 4c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Tc 453 45.76 525 53.03 12 1.21 0.464
Ah Kh 525 53.03 453 45.76 12 1.21 0.536

Not saying you made the wrong play, but keep in mind these numbers!

if villain shoves, we would be calling $35.00 to win $61.90 more so we should definitely be taking those odds even if the hands were face up (we only need 36% equity on pot odds). and of course he may shove worse hands, worse draws, or even fold better hands like AJ.

plus we make a lot more money when we get paid off by TPTK down the track when we do the same thing with a set.

[HelloJohnny]

I agree with you and I understand the logic behind raising draws.

It's just important to get some perspective that we shouldn't be over the moon about getting it in on the flop with TP+FD on Ace-high boards, in particular, we are behind the "big aces" which OP was "hoping" he had.

[dave798111]

Originally Posted by djkelly69

nh (given you said you are getting it in if he shoves). uber draws should be played like sets a majority of the time.

villain is not going to "bluff" the turn and river. he is going to value bet better hands and shut down if he had air/not much or the board gets scary.

our hand has the most equity against his range on the flop, so we want to get the money in now before we either lose equity, or cards come that will kill our action.

just unlucky he had nothing here, as it is unlikely he folded TP to a single raise in a heads up pot.

calling is not "def the right option". would you just call with sets here?

ps. dont post results, they skew opinions.

This logic is kind of skewed. Obviously this is a good board to raise a set because we get it in very good and we can rep a draw. It's a good board to raise a draw because we have fold equity against a lot of better hands than ours. Where we have TPMK and a FD, we aren't going to get it in good on the flop (usually flipping) and have virtually no fold equity vs better hands. Also, if as you say he is never bluffing turn or river, we can play very profitably in position.

The decision between raising and calling will be dependent on your opponent, gameflow, etc. If you play a relatively standard style, you will be likely to get paid off when you hit your flush anyway because your flat on the flop doesnt look like a FD. If villain is a bit spazzy raising is clearly better because you are going to be doing well vs his range for getting it in on the flop. If villain is a supernit raising is going to be pretty terrible imo (unless he is a supernittard who might fold AJ/AQ on this board).

As for balancing, you can balance with your unpaired NFDs / low paired FDs. You will have FDs a lot more than sets anyway so I don't think you need to raise these specific hands for balancing.