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Thread: Top pair top kicker???

  1. #1
    GRETZKY427 is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Top pair top kicker???

    Full Tilt Poker Game #22592872208: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (174487664), Table 1 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:43:56 ET - 2010/07/25
    Seat 1: Mercone (3,270)
    Seat 2: MotorHead_87 (2,570)
    Seat 3: gyruss (1,240)
    Seat 4: ME (1,345)
    Seat 6: Salitam (1,455)
    Seat 7: Knipps52 (1,450)
    Seat 8: WunderwuziAUT (1,100)
    Seat 9: andrems33 (1,070)
    andrems33 posts the small blind of 20
    Mercone posts the big blind of 40
    The button is in seat #8
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to ME [As Jh]
    MotorHead_87 folds
    gyruss folds
    ME raises to 120
    Salitam folds
    Knipps52 folds
    WunderwuziAUT calls 120
    andrems33 folds
    Mercone folds
    *** FLOP *** [Jd 6c 3s]
    ME checks
    WunderwuziAUT bets 40
    ME raises to 220
    WunderwuziAUT calls 180
    *** TURN *** [Jd 6c 3s] [8s]
    ME???

    What is my play here, to check/raise, bet or shove all in?

    I deemed my opponent on the tight side (range=22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,AJo+,KQo+) so he could have had number of hands that would have me dominated in the hand (33, 66, 88, JJ, QQ, KK, AA)

    If he had AA or JJ he most likely would have went for a reraise even KK and QQ imo unless he flat calls preflop to try and extract more chips from me on later streets which is quiet possible.

    I think my bad play was checking the flop, allowing him to take control of the hand but in saying that there his small bet on the flop got me thinking...does he have a set or a higher pair then me even 2 pair???

    im 45% against his 55% assigning him to his range above listed, so near a coinflip but so early on in this sng would i also be best just to fold this hand and wait for a better spot???

  2. #2
    Gtrain24's Avatar
    Gtrain24 is offline PNW Semi-Pro
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    Default Re: Top pair top kicker???

    Bet 485/call on the turn imo.

  3. #3
    GRETZKY427 is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Top pair top kicker???

    *** TURN *** [Jd 6c 3s] [8s]
    ME bets 1,005, and is all in
    WunderwuziAUT calls 760, and is all in
    ME shows [As Jh]
    WunderwuziAUT shows [3h 3c]
    Uncalled bet of 245 returned to ME
    *** RIVER *** [Jd 6c 3s 8s] [Qc]
    ME shows a pair of Jacks
    WunderwuziAUT shows three of a kind, Threes
    WunderwuziAUT wins the pot (2,260) with three of a kind, Threes
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 2,260 | Rake 0
    Board: [Jd 6c 3s 8s Qc]
    Seat 1: Mercone (big blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 2: MotorHead_87 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 3: gyruss didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 4: ME showed [As Jh] and lost with a pair of Jacks
    Seat 6: Salitam didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 7: Knipps52 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 8: WunderwuziAUT (button) showed [3h 3c] and won (2,260) with three of a kind, Threes
    Seat 9: andrems33 (small blind) folded before the Flop

    Was my shove on the turn the wrong play or could have i taken another line with this hand?

  4. #4
    Gtrain24's Avatar
    Gtrain24 is offline PNW Semi-Pro
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    Default Re: Top pair top kicker???

    Based on villains line, I would say you are ahead a fairly high % of the time. So shoving turn is really not great because you fold out all of his weak stuff, and he snap calls you with all of his strong holdings. So as I said earlier, I believe you are best off betting just under half of your stack and giving the weaker players at this level the impression that they have fold equity, so they can jam hands like JT, QJ, KJ, J9, TT, 99 etc over your turn bet. The fact that he had a set in this situation really has no bearing on what the correct line should be long term.

  5. #5
    risk2Dupside's Avatar
    risk2Dupside is offline PNW Elite
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    Default Re: Top pair top kicker???

    prefer betting flop to check raising it

  6. #6
    GRETZKY427 is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Top pair top kicker???

    Quote Originally Posted by risk2Dupside View Post
    prefer betting flop to check raising it
    Curious why is that...a bet over a check/raise on the flop?

    Im portraying my hand strength arent i and same goes to GTrains response...why bet half pot instead of a shove all in and commit him?

    Im only been playing poker for about 12mths so im still quiet new to this

  7. #7
    GRETZKY427 is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Top pair top kicker???

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrain24 View Post
    Based on villains line, I would say you are ahead a fairly high % of the time. So shoving turn is really not great because you fold out all of his weak stuff, and he snap calls you with all of his strong holdings. So as I said earlier, I believe you are best off betting just under half of your stack and giving the weaker players at this level the impression that they have fold equity, so they can jam hands like JT, QJ, KJ, J9, TT, 99 etc over your turn bet. The fact that he had a set in this situation really has no bearing on what the correct line should be long term.
    So by not shoving on the turn you give my opponent more of a chance to bet at the pot with 2nd best hand against mine will induce more chips out of him...where as with a shoving on the turn its only going to be the nuts or so hands that will call my shove...thats if i didnt shove the turn but he had a set of 3s so he was calling me not matter what...

    Damm it only if i had a set of 8s, Js or Qs lol...

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