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Thread: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

  1. #1
    dingt is offline PNW Lurker
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    Default Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    Hi guys,

    Wanted your opinion on this hand. I was at a pub cash game, blinds are 5/5

    I am second to act and get dealt jack/8 of spades. I decided to limp. 3 caller limpers.

    Flop comes out:

    Ace spades, King spades, 4 Clubs.

    Guy bets $30
    Next guy calls.
    I decide to smooth call.
    Next guy shoves all in for $120
    Next guy snap calls.
    I have about $105 behind me, is it worth me calling an extra $85?
    I thought about it for a long time. The guy who went all in is an ok player, so I thought that he shoved because he saw the draw out there and didn't want people catching up.
    After a long think I decided to let it go.
    Turn came and yep, a spade come then a blank.
    Both guys ended up having ace/queen.
    Sigh, what would you guys of done?

    Constructive answers pls, no trolls.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    hip
    hip is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    yup call.

    if u play this hand and u hit a flop (with the right pot odds) u should definately call.

    If you're up against a bigger flush draw, well bad luck. that's fairly rare with the j-high.

    on another note, i would fold or raise with this hand pre. most people will tell you if you don't have a plan with this hand, just fold it pre. it's quite good advice.

  3. #3
    dingt is offline PNW Lurker
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    Thanks for the tip, yes I agree with you. Great advice. However I think it was more of a mind fuck for me at the time as I was trying to get a read, because everyone had only limped pre-flop, but I did understand from the betting patern that he either had a set or he did not want people to catch up with the flush with a big ace - which I had put him on.
    Another reason I did not call is cause if he did have a set or 2 pair and the board paired, i would be all but out and still had $105 behind me so decided to pick a better spot.
    However looking at it back now I think it was a very bad fold.
    Thanks for the feedback.

  4. #4
    hip
    hip is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    It's really quite unusual that they both had AQ on another note since there was no pre-flop aggression. Also, I think you're assigning a hand-range that's way to strong - there's more hands than a set here and/or top pair good kicker. I would be expecting to see the initial better's range to include Kx and the raiser to have Ax. And everyone is quite short stacked so money goes in alot quicker.

    My guess is you didn't get an opportunity to see what every was limping in with most of the time. Probably a bunch of suited cards (similar to the J-high u had), connectors (and the occasional small pocket pair)

    Of course, these generalisations don't take into account the dynamic of the game you were in.

  5. #5
    paulyramone is offline PNW Grinder
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    Quote Originally Posted by dingt View Post

    Sigh, what would you guys of done?

    I am second to act and get dealt jack/8 of spades. I decided to limp.
    Not this.

  6. #6
    dingt is offline PNW Lurker
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    Generally speaking they're crazy players who limp with any 2 cards most of the time. Just fish that get very lucky and hit 2 pair quite often , or go all in with bottom pair. That is why I decided to fold, due to their playing style. On top of that they tend to shove with massive up and down draws and flush draws so I was thinking he could have the queen of spades. All these possibilities I was considering, too much overthinking I guess.

  7. #7
    hip
    hip is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    generally speaking, loose players means you should be more likely to get it in with a marginal hand.

    in this example, the value of ur flush draw doesn't go up much because ur almost definately behind @ this stage with 3 players and if u hit u'll win the pot almost certainly.

    but in heads up, for example, there's always the possibility that ur j-high flush draw is up against a 9-high flush draw by your description of players.
    Last edited by hip; 11-10-2011 at 08:47 AM.

  8. #8
    dingt is offline PNW Lurker
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    ah ok, thanks for the great advice guys. Helps me a lot.

  9. #9
    berry1 is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Flush draw worth it, with so much money invested?

    fold pre. given u have 24bb raising is also pretty bad...........

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