Theory: Live 3-bet/4-bet sizing

[berry1]

Something I've been thinking about for a while is how to size 3 and 4 bets in live cash. @ Treasury the only game that gets up during the week these days is the 2/3. A standard ep open in a non-limped pot is about $15 (5bb) and in lp over several limpers something like $25-30 (8-10bb). For the most part i just do the standard online cash thing of popping it by about 3.2x in position and like 3.7x oop. For 4-bets i usually just 2x whatever they 3-bet to. (they never get thru but people tank fold flop a lot)


The reason for asking is that with the initial opens being so huge (in terms of bb) the stack to pot ratio gets really small as soon as you 3 or 4 bet. (cant buy in for more than 100bb unfortunately, ive played more live deepstack home games than @ casinos). Do i need to 3-bet so big? Also for live do i need to 4-bet bigger to try and get folds pre? (against some opponents my 4-bet range, especially cold 4-bet range is super polarised)
People flatting pre even if i have air some % of the time isnt neccesarily bad i dont think. Cause unless the flop smashes them in the face they tank for about 3 minutes without the slightest clue of whats going on or how they got into that spot and generally fold

[Strong Play]

size it to set up post flop action...

most of the time you're going to want to either shove flop, bet flop shove turn, or bet/bet/shove... take ur time and work out the bet sizes and what the pot will be etc...

the hard part tho is in lol_cash games you cant be as sure of only getting one caller as you would in say a tourney or a good-standard cash game... tinker a bit etc...

[JacksonTens]

When having a 4bet range is so complicated for you have you considered just not having one?

I'm being serious.

[berry1]

fairenough. question was mainly in regards 3-bet sizing. against most people in treasury i wouldnt have a 4-bet range (likely due to the fact they dont have a 3-bet range)

[Fat Kid No Life]

Unless your deep stacked and against a decent reg, 4 bets should be a shove. A 4 bet shove also looks weaker then making it 2X the 3 bet imo.