big draw HU 5/10

[zero]

villain is tilting tag - 28/21/2.67 ***** Hand History for Game 5342054138 *****$5/$10 Texas Hold'em - Monday, October 09, 05:59:11 ET 2006Table Table 109577 (Real Money)Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 3 Seat 2: jasjas999 ( $335.50 )Seat 6: xZExROx ( $529.25 )Seat 4: LeZmon ( $198 )LeZmon posts small blind [$2].xZExROx posts big blind [$5].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to xZExROx [ Tc Jc ]jasjas999 folds.LeZmon raises [$8].xZExROx raises [$10].LeZmon calls [$5].** Dealing Flop ** [ Qs, 5c, Kc ]LeZmon bets [$5].xZExROx raises [$10].LeZmon raises [$10].xZExROx raises [$10].LeZmon calls [$5].** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]LeZmon checks.xZExROx checks.** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]LeZmon bets [$10].xZExROx raises [$20].LeZmon calls [$10].

[zero]

standard i assume ? phil im looking for your answer...

[phil markey]

i think i have the stats of a tilting lag !i guess you dont have to 3 bet pre-flop but its not really an issue heads up with position - the other streets look boring to me except the turnthe short handed part of me always thinks that the free card is a dead tactic because to have equity for your dodgy flop raises you need opponents to fold to a turn bet - so usually i bet the turn - the times i dont are when i have a goodish draw and i dont know what to do when they raisewere you calling a bet if the river was a banana ?

[zero]

ok Phil...perfect a discussion!preflop - as you say it doesn't matter but i prefer aggression vs tags with positioninitial flop raise is to :1) find out where he is at - this guy would 3bet good hands here and thus i find out where i am at3) see free turn card (which didn't work coz he 3-bet)once he 3-bets, i know i am up against AK, KQ, even a set, thus my 4-bet is to see a free turn card which i completely intend on taking as theree is no way he folds the turn to my bet..[as a side note i have stacks of outs (15) although some may be discounted - and am ahead here alot of the time with 2 cards to come]on the turn - i like the card a little as it gives me 2 more outs - however there is no point betting as he is calling and i am not ahead - also the turn check almost guarrantees a river bet from him - which is exactly what i what regardless of the card- i am not taking this pot down UIThe reason i posted this hand is b/c i think this line is perfect vs a thinking tag like this one... max value when im ahead and min loss when im behind... should do the numbers but cant be bothered...what u think phil ?

[phil markey]

well the free card isnt a dead tactic - if you "know" he has you beat unimproved then its fine but its often a dangerous assumption - i can happily agree that this is a hand where you could knowi like it with position i often cap the flop heads up after getting "caught" raising with only a hand that wasnt folding as opposed to something i think is in front (not really this situation because you have oodles of actual equity) - that fourth bet goes in for the same reason as the second...

[zero]

sweet, glad u like it - i did too... i find this quite an interesting hand as it outlines the rationale behind not throwing in alot of those bets that you sometimes throw in on the turn just coz u are trying to be aggressive even though u know the villain has u beat and is calling...[and on the turn u aint ahead anymore and can no longer be value betting ur draw]

[PokaBandito]

I may/may not 3bet preflop, but everything else is standard. I might even fire on the turn too, but I'm really aggressive. I like the check though, because after he caps the flop with you, he isn't going anywhere, so you still need to hit and a river J might not do you any good. All in all, WP. I like it. =)