ATTENTION: All Pub Poker Providers/Managers and Employees

[bishop]

Hi All,

Recently I responded to a thread with the below comment. In the thread it was in it wasn't generating much in the way of motivated/critical discussion. So I thought I would start my own thread.

This thread will not be used to have digs or insult other operators, nor should it be used to promote up and coming games. I ask all Pub Poker Industry leaders and employees to contribute cordially to this thread and discussion points.

1.) A code of conduct for all operators/employees to be adhered to when posting on this forum. Half of the nonsense posted on here is quite childish and makes us all look like blithering, immature idiots. Moderator and Admin support would be required for this.

2.) An accord to be formed with representatives from all Leagues, poker providers. This accord to from a code of conduct for all operators (with special emphasis on tournament operations, prize pool distribution, handling player complaints, staff training - just to name a few).

3.) Industry standards to be designed and implemented.

4.) A Judiciary/tribunal/commission to be formed by players and reps from providers to handle serious complaints and to act as a "watchdog" in terms of operations.

5.) Industry guidelines and regulations to be implemented in regards to advertising/marketing on event or league concepts. Transparency and concise communication is key.

6.) Competition practices may need to be discussed here as well but I prefer we keep this to another thread or an offline discussion.

Over the next five years, it is my opinion; that poker will eventually become an, even more, established entertainment option for a wide demographic of Australians. The public image of poker is already becoming more positive and the visual of seedy, cigar smoke filled back rooms is quickly getting replaced by smiling, happy people playing in well lit poker room or pubs and clubs.

This is a positive for the entire poker industry and as such we all should be taking advantage of this turning trend in public opinion and establishing some industry standards for operations and a resource for players to have their complaints/queries to be heard independently.

With the growth in the Australian marker and the association/affiliate deals with online sites it is only a matter of time before the legislative and enforcement magnifying glass is cast over the operations of some providers.

Our industry is now well established and will remain well established for years to come, PROVIDED that we all act in an ethical and responsible manner.

Hi All,

For the purpose of clarity and transparency you all should know that I am the Operations Manager for the 888Poker League here in Australia.

For the last four years we have operated in the states of South Australia, Victoria and Tasmania (as a licensed brand) and in May of last year created our own brand. We now operate approx 300 events, weekly, in South Australia, Victoria, Tasmania and Queensland and have just recently moved into the North Coast regions of NSW. We also operate 150 online events on the 888 poker client.

I have also been a member of this forum for quite a few years, as a lurker in the majority and contribute on the rare occasion. In this case I feel the need to speak out on this matter and perhaps a few more.

Excuse me for the below, if on duty staff were not permitted to play in these events, I have no issue with off duty staff participating in any events but.....

As a TD,a player and a provider; I think it is abhorent and irresponsible that you ask players to fork out a buy in or attempt to qualify for an event, that you permit your ON DUTY TD's to participate in. TD's are required to be 3rd party independant arbitrators of all tournament rulings and operations and are also responsible for a positive customer experience; the opportunity to dampen this customer experience or the possibility of perceived fraud far outweighs any positives that can be achieved by allowing on duty staff to participate in tournaments.

It has always been my primary goal to establish a league that offers an entertaining product that is delivered professionally and with unquestionable integrity. IMHO it should be the major goal of all major providers in the pub poker market.

Whilst I do not question the intentions or the integrity of any other providers in the marketplace I do often find myself bemused or taken aback by the public actions of some providers.

I have no doubt in my mind that players enjoy/love playing against our TD's and in fact we promote our staff to play in 888PL events whilst off duty. We have set several guidelines for particpation within the league:

1.) All TC's are welcome to play freerolls in venues and buy in games online.
2.) All LIVE buy in games that allow TC's to participate (teams/Bounties/Terminators/etc....) should be advertised as such so players are aware that off duty contractors/employees will be participating in these games.
3.) All TC's must wear identification that identify them as 888PL TD's and must sign off and adhere to our code of conduct.
4.) NO TC is permitted to participate in any event they are working or were rostered on for.

I know explaining these rules here is pretty much redundant, but it is my honest belief that if we cannot self govern our own market it is only a matter of time before legislation is introduced and/or a "watchdog" is introduced to ensure ethical conduct of tournaments, prize distribution, management, staff and players.

In recent times several other providers have contacted me in regards to setting up some sort of standards of excellence or code of conduct of operators and an accord to go along with this, and then possibly a judiciary or tribunal that players can present arguments or problems to; this of course would need to be formed by reps of each provider/league and then a player rep from each player league.

For too long now I have watched pub poker providers/operators/representatives prod/argue and insult each other on here, and whilst they may present the minority of owners/operators it makes the rest of the pub poker industry look immature and senseless.

This is not a stab at any one provider, rather I am asking all providers to contemplate the damage their actions may have on this industry as a whole and also to ask all providers to contemplate the formation of a governing body for pub poker; fairly similar to the TDA but adapted to our markets and operational restraints.


Thank you for time and if you got this far; sorry for the novel.

Garth Kay

[Strong Play]

Long overdue and has my full support.

[TeeOhDoubleDee]

Garth,

Must say I agree. Like any "new" industry you need governance for it be accepted by the main stream - if this can be self determined the better for all.

I for one applaud your initiative and welcome the industry becoming what it can be - i.e. professional.

WP Sir.

[Sin City Admin]

I will support it. I had previously typed up a big response - but that can be left for when we all decide to get together, put our differences aside and get on to making Venue Poker in Australia what it should be.

Please note: I have read the "other" thread and I dont want to get mixed up in things. I like to think I have a good relationship will ALL poker providers and would like to keep it that way.

But to clarify...

I do not own or manage the Poker at Jade Tavern, or Haymarket Hotel. (Strongplay is right). I dont even know how to split a pot.

I do advertise and represent the operation online because the guys running the games should be doing just that - running the games. I also like to help Harry programme the schedule and big events.

I am the Licensee of Jade Tavern

I do play in some Poker Events but have not played Poker in over 6 weeks. Because I always LOSE money and Im play Really bad.

No one is allowed to play ANY card game (even solitaire) whilst they are on duty and wearing their uniform.


Hope to see everyone soon...

Can I add, Id also like to see some industry awards aswell.... a piss up for the TD's and operators, some awards detailing some of the good work our industry has done this year and a chance to get together and maybe have a battle of the operators game.

ur thoughts???

[Strong Play]

a piss up

ur thoughts???

I whole-heartedly support the above initiative.

[bishop]

It's always been my intention to create some national awards and recognition if not industry wide but at least for the league and other affiliates.

Thanks Paul.

[LandoCalrisian]

Bravo, Garth. You have my full support and I would be more than willing to help out in any way that I can.

[dirtydiana]

Garth,

You and I have had a conversation about this very same topic, my partner and I stongly support your ideas, and will be open to any discussions etc. We want to make Poker a pleasant experience for the Venues, players and TD's.
We also do not allow our TD's to play and work at the same time. Good Luck

[Ultimate Poker]

I also think that a "watchdog" of sorts should be brought in and some standards are brought in

I think also that at the top end of large poker companies there would be little to be concerned about as we all want to thrive in the poker business

Large providers such as NPL, APL, UPT, 888PL etc, I would assume would be running by the book

The problem arises when a less than ethical TD or licensee gets in under the radar

It is in the interest of the large companies to weed out those that are not doing the right thing under their name as it not only bad for business, but bad for the industry too

UPT has acted in the past in relation to a TD who was stealing from the pot and he was found out very quickly and he was dismissed even faster, the same would go for any TD, affiliate or licensee

That's what we call self regulation

Players tend to vote with their feet (in most cases) and if prizepools are short very soon player number tend to also be short

Forums like this are a great way for people to air their concerns without giving their name, although this freedom is sometimes abused. But often where there is smoke there is fire. Large poker companies DO look at this forum regularly and DO look into allegations posted here

I say this because I don't truly think that there will never be a regulatory authority that covers poker, why?

1) In NSW the OLGR says that there is a facts sheet available that covers poker
When you contact enforcements at OLGR they simply refer you to the facts sheet if you query is regarding what you can and cannot do
If you wish to alert them to something that you feel is contrary to the facts sheet, enforcements has no idea what is permitted and what is not and you are again refered to the facts sheet or to contact the police and the police have even less of an understanding than OLGR enforcements department

2) That leaves us with the other option of setting up an industry body to oversee poker and as most leagues are not on talking terms, I feel that this will probably not be an option

So that leaves us with self regulation
Not such a bad thing as, in NSW, there are now the big 3 and let me assure anyone out there that there is plenty of competition out there and while this is the case, the players are the winners. It's all about market share and filling games and most of the leagues strive to outdo each other to attract players

My advise for players is
1) Be informed and look for games of value and quality
2) if you have a concern regarding the poker being run at your venue, contact the poker companies head office, I would be very supprised if they did not take action
3) Be understanding, large leagues may not know of a problem unless you tell them

Cheers Dean Lewis UPT

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Any tournament with rebuys or addons should be required to have a screen displayed at all times, and any rebuy or addon should be updated immediately.

The biggest problem and what quickly can turn a legit tourney operator into a suspected dodgy tourney operator is when players believe rightly or wrongly the pot is being skimmed.