Exposing a hand during live play

[redda]

Hello all, I'm new here so please be nice.

I was in a tournament earlier tonight and a tricky situation came up. I was not involved in the pot, but I would appreciate a clarification of the rules. The TD ruled that the hand still stands.

UTG limp, SB calls, BB checks.

UTG flops 2 pair checks! then deliberately exposed both cards.

I tried to explain that this was not in the spirit of poker. My contention is that any exposed hand with live players is a mucked hand.

1: When live players remain in a pot, is an exposed hand mucked?
2: If a hand is exposed (accidentally or otherwise) and the next to act bets, is the exposed hand mucked or still live?
3: Are there some International rules of Poker that all clubs can agree upon?

My personal opinion on this matter is that any exposed cards constitutes a mucked hand. The rules of poker tend to differ here.

I would deeply appreciate some informed feedback.

Thank you.

[thret]

1. No.
2. No.
3. Yes. Official TDA Rules :: The Poker TDA

Hand is only dead if it goes into the muck.

[thehux]

Originally Posted by redda

Hello all, I'm new here so please be nice.

I was in a tournament earlier tonight and a tricky situation came up. I was not involved in the pot, but I would appreciate a clarification of the rules. The TD ruled that the hand still stands.

UTG limp, SB calls, BB checks.

UTG flops 2 pair checks! then deliberately exposed both cards.

I tried to explain that this was not in the spirit of poker. My contention is that any exposed hand with live players is a mucked hand.

1: When live players remain in a pot, is an exposed hand mucked?
2: If a hand is exposed (accidentally or otherwise) and the next to act bets, is the exposed hand mucked or still live?
3: Are there some International rules of Poker that all clubs can agree upon?

My personal opinion on this matter is that any exposed cards constitutes a mucked hand. The rules of poker tend to differ here.

I would deeply appreciate some informed feedback.

Thank you.

Hi redda,

Thret is correct on all fronts.

The hand is not dead, however what happens next is purely up to the tournament director. In most cases, as in this one, the player would receive a penalty and miss a few rounds. In an extreme circumstance, ie the player continues to expose their cards prior to action being completed, then the TD would have the option of disqualifying the player all together. That obviously is a little harsh, and what would normally happen here is that the TD would give this player a warning, that should they expose their cards prior to action being complete again, they will get a penalty. This normally stops the shenanigans in most situations.

Also, the TDA rules are as good a rules guide to follow, and most high level card rooms and international tournaments use them.

Hope this helps.

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Really its to the other players advantage.

Quite a dickhead to expose his cards though.

[bigfatbastard]

There are no shortage of places that declare a hand dead for
deliberately exposing either/any cards with any action to follow.
Locally and overseas, in games big and small.
That's why Helmuth asked the TD on a recent TV event, I think
it was Poker After Dark, whether he could expose a card or two
without penalty. He wouldn't ask if it were a blanket rule.
Intentions of the exposer are a consideration.
Integrity of the game is paramount.

BFB

[Diplomatic Immunity]

Almost all poker leagues in the country rule that a deliberately exposed hand is a muck during a hand.

This is because from our experiences with live hotel poker it is in the best interest of the game as a whole to stop players from deliberately angle shooting.

Technically, any penalties should commence upon completion of the hand. TDA are just one set of rules. However, most leagues, as is their right, formulate their own rules and guidelines that works best in a hotel environment.

However, our quite significant live experience has shown that the practicality of this rule in our environment dictates that we rule the hand dead.

Graham.

[SwoopAE]

Hand is live, player receives warning or penalty, may be disqualified for repeat offences, but hand does remain live unless the venue has a specific house rule saying the exposed hand is mucked as some venues do

[Diplomatic Immunity]

Originally Posted by SwoopAE

...... but hand does remain live unless the venue has a specific house rule saying the exposed hand is mucked as MOST venues do

Since live poker in Australia is predominately played in Hotels .....

I think you could safely say that 99% of all poker venues rule that the hand is dead.

[thret]

Well, I've only played live poker in casino's and home games, hand is always live. An extreme example came up in the JHDS tournament yesterday:

Short stack min raises utg+1, player in seat 11 (cramped next to dealer) calls from the BB. Utg+1 thinks he folded and shows AA. His hand was live. Dealer puts out a flop, the BB player check folds. Player who showed AA has to miss one orbit.

What makes it sick is that his min raise was over 1/2 his stack, so the other player would not have folded had he not showed. Also the blinds went up as he was sitting out, and he actually lost more chips than he had won. But this is the rule.

I wonder what casinos you are all playing at that would declare a hand dead in this spot.

[Diplomatic Immunity]

Originally Posted by thret

Well, I've only played live poker in casino's and home games .......
I wonder what casinos you are all playing at that would declare a hand dead in this spot.

There is roughly 9 casinos in Australia.

Hotel poker is played in roughly 500x as many hotels and clubs.

I am referring to this simply being the most common ruling in Australia,

Cheers

Graham