Cash games in pub/club poker leagues - a brief question on legislation

[Blu3B3ar]

Full-time larger scale operations such PokerDome and neverendingpoker have recently sprung, are growing in popularity and are welcome additions to the Sydney/NSW poker scene. Their games are "tournament-style", unfortunately such poker rooms are unable to run cash-based games due to legislation.Could anyone here explain (and point out the revelant gaming laws) why such cash games are not allowed to publicly run? Many players would welcome the inclusion of cash ring games. The presense of many rooms would also encourage a healthy competitive market and potentially push rakes down.

[Peanuts]

Pushing rakes down is one reason cash games are unlikely to happen outside of a casino anytime soon.

[Andrew LeRoy]

If pubs can run Bingo here in Vic why not cash poker? Also define "poker machine" maybe Tatts and/or TAB could legally install Poker Pro machines?! How sweet would it be to play cash tourneys every night of the week against Ubes.(Das Uber Fish)

[Andre28]

yeah Poker Pro machines seem more likely for cash games outside of a casino than anything else. It wouldnt be half bad, provided the rake is lower than what Crown is charging of course. At least it eliminates dealer errors (and if its self dealt, they are rampant).

[cooper1308]

if you paid 50 million a year or whatever for an exclusive casino license would you want other cardrooms popping up??I think tournaments are a bit of a loophole, as you can only lose your original buyin and no more (theoretically you can lose multiple s&g's pretty fast), where as cash games have potential to lose alot more, faster.One thing I can't figure out is how roulette and blackjack machines are allowed outside the casino...

[Trent]

Pushing rakes down is one reason cash games are unlikely to happen outside of a casino anytime soon.Not a really good reason, as one could argue this is why tournaments shouldn't be allowed. Can someone show us the loop holes you talk about, and the legislation against cash games?Trent

[Rico]

In the physical world, the principle of inertia counts for alot. (The tendency for an object at rest to stay at rest, an object in motion to stay in motion).Either the poker boom will gradually die out or it will become the status quo.If it becomes a normal activity, cash games conducted in plain view will eventually be taxed by the government and become raked games.Ive had this discussion with a sitting QLD MP and the impression I get from him is it's just an issue they'd rather ignore. There is no benefit for the government to address this issue. It's not a vote winner like more nurses at state hospitals or a solution to the water crisis.

[mattp]

NSW Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing POKER TOURNAMENTSIN NSWTHIS NSW OFFICE OF LIQUOR, Gaming and Racing information sheet provides guidance about the legal conduct of poker tournaments in New South Wales. It provides essential information for organisations and people who operate poker tournaments, hotels and clubs where the tournaments are played, charities, poker tournament players and members of the public. Application of gambling laws According to the Unlawful Gambling Act 1998, what constitutes a legal poker tournament will vary depending on the circumstances in which the tournament is held. The tables below summarise what you can and can’t do when organising, hosting or playing in a poker tournament. PUBLICATION DETAILS MAY 2006 Published by: NSW Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing Department of the Arts, Sport and Recreation 323 Castlereagh Street Sydney NSW 2000 Postal Address GPO Box 7060 Sydney NSW 2001 Telephone 02 9995 0333 Website www.dgr.nsw.gov.au Standard poker game between individuals (*where a game does not take place in a registered club or hotel) What you can do • gamble or stake money or valuables on the outcome of the game What you can’t do• have a dealer who is NOT a participant in the game • have a person who is NOT a participant, receiving payment or other benefits from the game • charge an entry fee for a person to participate • charge a fee to enter the premises where the game is played A poker tournament in a registered club or hotel organised by a third party What you can do • charge an entry or registration fee to participants • use poker chips that do NOT have a monetary value but may be used to indicate points • award prizes (including cash) at the conclusion of the tournament What you can’t do • *stake or gamble money or valuables on the outcome • use poker chips that have a monetary value *please note that it is a breach of the Registered Clubs Act 1976 and the Liquor Act 1982 for the premises to be used for gaming for stakes. A poker or casino night for charitable fundraising What you can do • charge an entry or registration fee to participants • use poker chips that do NOT have a money value but may be used to indicate points • award prizes (including cash) at the conclusion of the tournament What you can’t do• stake or gamble money on the outcome of the game • use poker chips that have a monetary value For further information please contact our Client Access Centre on 9995 0333, or email us at info@dgr.nsw.gov.au

[mrhawk74]

Just get a group of mates , sit on a table with coins and notes and start playing cash games in your living room, how hard is that?We do it all the time.

[mattp]

So do most of us Mr Hawk (although chips are used almost universally) - but this thread is about games in registered clubs , not home games.Personally, if we aren't going to have legal dedicated cardrooms ( and face it, the casino has a monopoly here) then the pokerpro tables look like a great option in clubs for SnG's & cash games. BTW - Is pokerpro used to run cash games at Crown?