Australian Taxes on Poker / Sydney Accountant

[steve_farha]

So if you used a HUD, would you be deemed to be running a business, because you're using tools of the trade, to possibly gain an advantage over the lesser types?

[CeeBee]

the amount of money probably is not a real factor in the analysis. the Ten years certainly wont help, but, even so, there are a number of factors the ATO must consider in order to determine whether or not the activities are undertaken in a business like manner.

In your comment you have only mentioned a couple of elements which in isolation may not show enough of the story for an assessment of the position to be possible.

The factors that are relevent are included in one of the other tax threads, I wont repeat themm.

cheers

Can u please provide link to this page^^^^

[FSL009]

No go find them yourself....

anyway as i checked and most of the threads have butchered them to be gambling related here is the list.

This is taken from Taxation ruling TR 97/11 "carrying on a business of primary production"

the following extract is from paragraph 13 of that ruling and the paragraph references in the extract are for this ruling as well. No worries anytime... the half hour I spent doing that i could have earned $325 by the way....sick brag

13. The courts have held that the following indicators are relevant:

*
whether the activity has a significant commercial purpose or character; this indicator comprises many aspects of the other indicators (see paragraphs 28 to 38);
*
whether the taxpayer has more than just an intention to engage in business (see paragraphs 39 to 46);
*
whether the taxpayer has a purpose of profit as well as a prospect of profit from the activity (see paragraphs 47 to 54);
*
whether there is repetition and regularity of the activity (see paragraphs 55 to 62);
*
whether the activity is of the same kind and carried on in a similar manner to that of the ordinary trade in that line of business (see paragraphs 63 to 67);
*
whether the activity is planned, organised and carried on in a businesslike manner such that it is directed at making a profit (see paragraphs 68 to 76);
*
the size, scale and permanency of the activity (see paragraphs 77 to 85); and
*
whether the activity is better described as a hobby, a form of recreation or a sporting activity (see paragraphs 86 to 93).

[Diplomatic Immunity]

No go find them yourself....

anyway as i checked and most of the threads have butchered them to be gambling related here is the list.

This is taken from Taxation ruling TR 97/11 "carrying on a business of primary production"

the following extract is from paragraph 13 of that ruling and the paragraph references in the extract are for this ruling as well. No worries anytime... the half hour I spent doing that i could have earned $325 by the way....sick brag

Quote:
13. The courts have held that the following indicators are relevant:

*
whether the activity has a significant commercial purpose or character; this indicator comprises many aspects of the other indicators (see paragraphs 28 to 38);
*
whether the taxpayer has more than just an intention to engage in business (see paragraphs 39 to 46);
*
whether the taxpayer has a purpose of profit as well as a prospect of profit from the activity (see paragraphs 47 to 54);
*
whether there is repetition and regularity of the activity (see paragraphs 55 to 62);
*
whether the activity is of the same kind and carried on in a similar manner to that of the ordinary trade in that line of business (see paragraphs 63 to 67);
*
whether the activity is planned, organised and carried on in a businesslike manner such that it is directed at making a profit (see paragraphs 68 to 76);
*
the size, scale and permanency of the activity (see paragraphs 77 to 85); and
*
whether the activity is better described as a hobby, a form of recreation or a sporting activity (see paragraphs 86 to 93).

__________________

TAX OFFICE FOR THE WIN ...

[FSL009]

TAX OFFICE FOR THE WIN ...

not necessarily, note the prospect of profit comment, it is very hard to show that there is a prospect of profit when games are considered to have some element of chance in them.

They also need to show that its not a hobby. that is done for profit.

in most PBR's so far they indicate that the person successfully argued that they undertook the activity because of a desire other than profit, to be the best at the activity if you like.

This might be a harder argument when there is a reliance on the money for life but is not impossible, i think.

I also note that the list above should be considered with the case law available. the main cases are a black jack player and a horse punter.

they go back to the above test somewhat, albiet the cases were before it got as neat and tidy as my post above.

I would point out that it is definitely one of those grey areas in tax law that needs more guidance or some clarifying case law.

Cheers