KQ suited - board of rags

[DamienCarroll]

Guys having trouble with playing KQsPlaying limit $2/$4 online, do you guys raise with this preflop, i generally limp earliy position raise late.Also if you are in MP and it is a board of rags, which gets checked LP player who bets, is this an automatic fold with out reads? Should you raise from LP if checked to you in LP?Any help?

[deank]

Damian,This may not be the right way but this is how i play KQs. If your 1st in the pot regardless of position raise with them. If your in LP with lot of callers, limp. If u hit a rag flop check/fold, all u have is 2 over cards. If u hit the flop say flush draw or top pair play them hard. As in all things poker the old saying "it depends" comes into it ie types of players, what hands do they play and so on. As i said this may not be the right way, but this is how i play them and get moderate success. Hope this helps.Deank

[TrustAMate Poke r]

Mix it up, if you are first in the pot like the last guy said and its a tight game i generally raise, but don't become predictable, sometimes limp with it.In a loose game where bets get capped before the flop, obviously it becomes somewhat of a marginal hand to play and you should probably wait until later position to play it.

[Sirens]

Here is how i play KQ suited.In a full ring game early position limpmid position raise whether im first in or there are limpers doesn't matter same as late posiion.raise in late positionShorthanded always raise. If its raised upfront usually three bet.Hope i helped.Van

[PokerMike]

1. Raise in all positions. You have a very strong hand that simply has a huge equity preflop vs limping hands(especially at 2/4). You have a LOT of limping hands dominated. Taking the lead in aggression may also win a few pots without showdown, this is good(depends on average players to flop and how tight/loose postflop they are).2. Bet/call on a rag flop. You have odds to draw and you have a good kicker for when you hit. Calling on the flop is a little easier when you raise preflop and are getting better odds. Backdoor flush/straight outs help a lot. Obviously there are a variety of check/fold flops, but not that many.3. Pump all draws very strong in multiway pots, only ease up when headsup.You should be playing aggressiverly, limping with this hand is criminal.

[Sirens]

Mike I dont agree with ur advice about raising it in any position. KQ suited is a multiway hand it plays well shorthanded but even better multiway when u raise upfront all ur doing is making the hands that u dominate such as J10, JQ, Q10, even hands like 910 of clubs fold where u would like them to call and instead u force urself to play with the hands that dominate u. Most likely what will happen when u raise with this hand in early position is that someone around the back is gonna three bet and isolate you. Now how do u like your hand? Now you not only dont have a multiway hand but ur likely against a hand that dominates you and your hu out of position.

[PokerMike]

I played 30k hands at 2/4 before i moved up and 2/4 isn't as tough as you make it out to be. People play very bad, they will cold call with their dominated hands and if you get 3-bet then you play accordingly. I've played a lot of 2/4 and IMHO raising from any position is more profitable than limping.Just because it is an excellent multiway hand doesn't mean isn't an excellent headsup hand aswell. The argument that you want more people to come along doesn't hold up if you are giving up a lot of preflop EV by not raising(a similar argument would be 'limp with AKs because its spectacular multiway[/puke]').Every extra chip you put into the pot is extra money earned(the vast majority of the time). Sure you will dodge an uncomfortable situation by limping once in a while, but you are leaving money on the table all the other times you have the best hand. Ofcourse you will run into AK/AQ/AA/KK/QQ, but those are 5 hands out of very very many others you are in great shape against(add up all combinations of those 5 hands + all combinations of the trash the average 2/4 player will cold call with). Even against those hands(the ones you are in bad shape against) the fact that its a suited connector means you will win a few showdowns with straights/flushes. Worrying about a better hand 3-betting you is monsters under the bed syndrome. Be fearless!

[Sirens]

1) 2-4 online is tougher than most 10-20 live action games.2) Most pots are shorthanded with raising and reraising preflop.3) If ur gonna raise with KQ suited UTG then why not raise A10 suited from your analysis i see that u would raise that too which is completely wrong because:a) and i will keep going back to this pointA10 suited plays well against the hands it dominates if you raise all the hands containing Acex (x = 9 - 2) will fold whether which is exactly what u dont want u will either isolate the blinds or someone will coldcall may even three bet you when ur dominated.4) There is a difference between being fearless and not understanding the concepts. Just because your a super aggressive player doesn't mean you should raise or reraise. it all depends on the situation sometimes its correct especially hu against an aggressive habitual bluffer to become a passive calling station. Same as here u must vary your play at times limp other times raise. Leaning towards limping is a much better long term play. If you put the hand KQ suited in a simulation you will find that limping has a higher +EV decision than raising or folding. Therefore we dont care about being aggressive or fearless nothing to do with that. We only care about whats best in the long term for our bankroll.5) The fact is some hands play well multiway and others play well hu. A hand such as KQ suited is a better multiway way hand than hu.6) Ur suggestion with Ak suited is not bad u can limp ep sometimes. Most of the time i raise but sometimes i limp raise especailly if its suited, offsuit Ak i just raise because it plays better shorthanded and hu rather than multiway. Limping also gives ur hand deception. 7) What do u do with 99? 88? 77? do u raise those also or do u limp.Well now if u say limp with these hands and raise with the others ur giving too much information away. Limp in with AJ suited, A10 suited Kq suited, 77, 88, 99 maybe even JQ suited or KJ suited in most games if its loose passive. In holdem every situation is different you cannot setup some sort of formula. If EP raises what do u do with Aj reraises because ur fearless?? offcourse not fear has nothing to do with it you muck cause ur not "playing the thrill of fuking victory" if i may quote from the movie rounders your playing for Money !

[PokerMike]

I agree with most of what you have said. I think that the key point is the difficulty and cold calling standards of the average online 2/4 player. In my opinion this range is huge, and thats what makes the raise more profitable than limping.I do not agree that most pots are shorthanded. 2/4 has many many multiway pots from my experience(playing 30k hands at party & skins).I don't think you need to vary your play(limp sometimes, raise others) at this limit unless you are playing with regulars. The player pool at the 2/4 level is huge.What do i do with 99/88/77? Well in the 2/4 i'd probably limp, because of the cold calling standards i believe the players have. If i thought they were tighter i may raise and try to play more headsup/shorthanded pots. 1) It doesn'tmatter if you're giving information away(UTG raising standards) because of the player pool andlow quality ofplay + 2) Raising with AK/AQ/AJ/ATs/TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA isn't that short a range UTG, so not that much info is given away.About you 'what do you do with AJ to a raise' question, ofcourse you are right. But here you have evidence that they have strong holdings. Not raising with KQs because they *might* have strong holdings is what i was saying was being scared for no reason. Once you get 3-bet, then be afraid :P

[Blu3B3ar]

As a pretty crappy limit holdem player, I feel that either limping or raising KQs under-the-gun are both meritorious and valid plays. Limping KQs does encourage slightly more multi-way play (of course you can argue that the callers would cold call anyway if you raise), on the other hand, KQs can be raised as it does have solid high-card value and dominates many hands.I think this question boils down to the question whether you can play the hand skillfully postflop in a confident manner or not. If you are not skillful, you will often feel that you have "over-committed" yourself due to a possible bigger pot and it can be psychologically hard to fold a hard where you have aggressively raised preflop - and therefore, will leak a few bets postflop. On the other hand, if you are skillful postflop, raising KQs preflop may successfully squeeze some extra +EV, especially if you correctly read the situation and styles of the players carefully.Just my 2 cents.