cheating at star city tournament

[Strong Play]

Interesting that this person said nothing at the time.

Nor that they have been playing cash games there for over four years and do not know the names of two "well known regulars".

Nor that they have not been to the casino since to try to ascertain the names of said "well known regulars".

Not saying there's no chance of cheating because, as mentioned by other posters, all casinos are susceptible to this irrespective of their vigilence on the matter. I myself have witnessed many times floor staff doing full chip reconciliations during chip ups and at the end of tournaments. I remember an imbalance on one occasion that led to the rule implementation of all players must use chip racks when transporting chips between tables to keep their stacks in full view.

Etc etc.

SP.

[toysteel]

I said nothing at the time for 3 reasons.

1. I felt the cheating player was terrible and felt that having him at the table with more chips was +EV for my own chances. That is a selfish reason.

2. I felt that making a huge ruckus at the time would be -EV for my state of mind in the tournament and for all my future play at Star City.

3. I had little confidence in Star City management's to handle the matter professionally given my view of how they have handled issues in the past.

I would like to thank Danny for actually taking an interest in this matter since I don't really have much hope of anything coming out of it, my hope is that future tournament players on this site will be watchful at this tournament and if we recieve multiple reports of shenanigans then it becomes much harder to dismiss them . Also I have no doubt that many of the cheaters will be watching this thread, and I hope that severe action against one cheater will act as a deterrent to the rest.

What JK said is quite true, I have thought about the possibilities and the cheating is almost too easy and impossible to detect. All I would need to do is obtain say $5000 chips at some point in the tournament's history, then I just bring those chips every tournament, re-introduce them into play when average stacks are between $5000 and $10000, giving me 50%+EV for my buying. Then once average stacks are $30000+ I can just take the $5000 chips off play again, the casino is none the wiser, even by doing chip counts as the chip counts will match up at the end of tournament.

if you bring 3 good players into a syndicate and do this, thereby reducing the chances of one person busting and effecting the chip counts, so say one person busts with the extra $5000 going into play, the other two people would have to take $7500 from play so that the final chip count would match.

Someone tell me what security procedures Star City has that prevents the scenario I described above from being detected, and dealt with. The only things I can think of is if there are significant number of players who are good enough to keep accurate track of all other players chips, and i don't think this is the case in Star City.

[Strong Play]

Originally Posted by toysteel

1. I felt the cheating player was terrible and felt that having him at the table with more chips was +EV for my own chances.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL...

and

Originally Posted by Strong Play

Nor that they have been playing cash games there for over four years and do not know the names of two "well known regulars".

Nor that they have not been to the casino since to try to ascertain the names of said "well known regulars".

address the above pls?

kthx.
SP.

[toysteel]

Originally Posted by Strong Play

Nor that they have been playing cash games there for over four years and do not know the names of two "well known regulars".

Nor that they have not been to the casino since to try to ascertain the names of said "well known regulars".

I am not saying whether I know or do not know their names, but if i did, I would not post their names even if for sure they were cheating.

It is not my place to post people's names without proof, all I have is an overhead conversation. If I had a tape recording, or I knew for sure when they added the chips to their stack, then yes, I would pass those names onto Star City or more likely the relevant authorities to investigate.

That is why the person which there is proof, I have forwarded table and seat numbers to be investigated.

The problem is not that these two regulars were cheating so blatantly as to be having a conversation within earshot of the pokerdesk. But that Star City has no procedures in place to stop this cheating.

[Dean Banana P]

1. I felt the cheating player was terrible and felt that having him at the table with more chips was +EV for my own chances. That is a selfish reason.




wow......


hello kettle, this is pot....

[Strong Play]

Originally Posted by toysteel

1. I felt the cheating player was terrible and felt that having him at the table with more chips was +EV for my own chances. That is a selfish reason.

Just so funny.

You are so worried about cheating that you posted here, and have clearly been following the thread; yet you are so at ease with cheating that you a) identified what you yourself have described as RAMPANT cheating, in front of your own eyes, with what you have referred to as "proof", that you chose to ignore it until after the tournament to allow yourself to advantage therefrom?

How are you not just as bad as the person(s) involved sir?

And who are you by the way? - I'm sure if you are a star city reg I/others would know you... No need to hide, we all want cheating out of the game.

SP.

[toysteel]

Originally Posted by Strong Play

How are you not just as bad as the person(s) involved sir?

Err, is this a real question or a rhetorical question?

You chose to only focus on point 1, but why not focus on my points 2 and 3 which will clearly show that by bring focus to the matter there and then will DISADVANTAGE me significantly both in the tournament and in future play at STAR CITY.

I am not a hero or a martyr, hence why I am posting anonymously on a messageboard. Rather than making ad hominem attacks on my credibility, why not focus on bring pressure to STAR CITY to put processes in place to stop this cheating.

[Strong Play]

Originally Posted by toysteel

Err, is this a real question or a rhetorical question?

Real.

Originally Posted by toysteel

You chose to only focus on point 1, but why not focus on my points 2 and 3 which will clearly show that by bring focus to the matter there and then will DISADVANTAGE me significantly both in the tournament and in future play at STAR CITY.

Um, so because you bringing it to people's attention will disadvantage you LATER, as you assume to have so much of a skill advantage over a regular who apparently cheats as well, we should ignore the fact that you willfully chose to look the other way to blatant cheating because you reasoned that you would advantage from doing so?

Originally Posted by toysteel

I am not a hero or a martyr, hence why I am posting anonymously on a messageboard. Rather than making ad hominem attacks on my credibility, why not focus on bring pressure to STAR CITY to put processes in place to stop this cheating.

I don't recall attacking your credibility.

If you have any suggestions as to how Star City can stamp out this kind of cheating I'd be happy to put it to those within management with whom I have contact.

Cheers,
SP

[toysteel]

Several ways of combatting this.

1. frequently change the style of the high denomination chips, and vary the chips from tournament to tournament, that makes it harder to cheaters to accumulate useful chips.

2. transparency for the punishment of cheaters, I don't know if it is a crime or not to cheat in a tournament, if it is made clear to all players that cheating is a criminal offense and punisheable by turning over to police, then that is a big deterrent. Currently, i think people are not aware of any punishments whatsoever.

3. All players who are capable of doing so to track all player's at their tables chip counts. Really, if you are serious about tournament poker, this is something that you should already be doing. Combined with transparency of punishment, that is a huge deterrent for cheaters if they know that they could be at a table with someone who will track their chip counts and report them.

[Strong Play]

Originally Posted by toysteel

3. All players who are capable of doing so to track all player's at their tables chip counts. Really, if you are serious about tournament poker, this is something that you should already be doing. Combined with transparency of punishment, that is a huge deterrent for cheaters if they know that they could be at a table with someone who will track their chip counts and report them.

eh eh eh...

outside of the cheats, there are like 4 ppl in star city with the brainpower to outwit a pumpkin in a game of "let's not get baked into a pie"...

these people cant keep track of their OWN chips mate; let alone when it is their turn to act/breathe, how are they gunna keep track of 9 other players' stacks LOOOL...

option one has merit, given Star City now have two types of tournament chips I imagine/hope both will be used at various times. Not many places have > 2 types of tourney chips tho I would think.

SP