Bet Out or Check Raise -- You Decide

[DamienCarroll]

Thats a leak. Not for what you played but for the reasons you played it. Leak plain and simple

[Blu3B3ar]

My thoughts about the preflop action:I wouldn't be too quick to call it a major leak. It is fine to occasionally mix up ones play so that the the player's holdings would not be too readable. That said, being under the gun (UTG) is a terrible position to be in and the even if one were to play postflop excellently or cleverly, this can almost never compensate for the MASSIVE positional disadvantage. You said that raising is for value? It is not, and a raise at this spot is only for pure deception and image reasons. You are putting in 2 small bets to win a pot of 1.5 small bets at the preflop stage. These suited connectors play much better in a unraised and multi-way pot where you're a cheap price and much value to hit the flop.Another point is that you mentioned that if you are afraid that you would not get any action if you only raise premium cards in early position. Nothing can be furthur than the truth! I can guarantee that in most, if not all, $10/$20 limit holdem games, it doesn't matter what your image is, because even if they know that you're a tight player, they will STILL be happy to cold-call your raises with all kinds of junk. Heck, in most $10/$20 live games, you can SHOW and announce that you aces and will still get callers,, unbelievably!! Worrying about your tight/loose image is vastly over-rated and you'll just have to make the textbook correct plays to hammer these games. Also, as Sklansky and Malmuth said in many of their books, a tight image is good image to cultivate in holdem and can be used to your advantage.That said, it's good to occasionally mix up the play. But this is only against VERY sophisticated and observant players, where the thinking in holdem goes many levels deep.Regarding the action on the river:I still think that betting the river out is still the slighter better play, although I have no strong inclination for either play. A check-raise suffers the major weakness of needing "co-operative" opponents to work. Obviously this would depend on the post-flop aggression or "tilt level" of your opponent. That said, check-raising is vastly over-rated. I think collecting an extra 3-4 big bets through a possible check-raise is somewhat optimistic. I think betting it out has the benefit of possibly being able to put in a 3-bet if your opponents raise your bet! The opponents will not possibly put you on a straight so betting it out is good as there is a chance that you might raised.The benefits of possibly putting in a 3-bet, by an initial immediate bet on the river, in these kind of situations is frequently overlooked and bypassed for the check-raise (which might not happen).

[deank]

Fold pre-flop

[Scotto]

Bet Out,you have a monster,like Blue Bear said,don't rely on opponents betting.You got lucky with board,might as well put money in the pot.P.S excellent post,got me thinking

[Luke S]

PhilLove that you played this hand. Have to check raise.Cheers

[Doctor Straight]

Actually other posters are right- bet it.Check raising is usually easier on the flop andturn. On the river people will often just checkall the way to see a free showdown.

[MakybeDiva]

I think it's a clear bet. There is a chance that button holds trip Q's, 10's or 8's, realising that the only thing that beats him after the cards are all out is J9, 97, or even smaller one-gapped connectors. There is no reason for him to believe that you would have raised any of these hands pre-flop, or that the small blind would cap with these.There is also a chance that he could have AA or KK and still think that he has the best hand. The chance of getting raised far outweighs the chance of check-raising successfully. The small blind might even call two cold thinking that you might fold to a raise. Even if he does not, and the button does raise, you can now three-bet.If you check and he checks, you win nothing. If you bet and he calls, you win 1BB. If you bet, he calls and the SB calls, it's 2BB. If you bet and he raises, you 3 bet, it's 3BB.Clear bet this river.

[danielg]

Phil,what did you end up doing?Daniel

[Phil]

I checked, he checked and I go"F***, ship it." and literally he almost throws in his cards not even seeing mine. I booked a huge session winner, but this was the one hand I felt should be discussed.I did more thinking about the 97s as it is clear that everyone disagrees about it...so I went back to handy Mr. Sklansky's "Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players".Page 1: "The "winning approach" we provide is a tight but aggressive one. IT is not a "fast" approach, which some experts use to win slightly more money." (In the footer for this sentence it states: "Some experts deliberately play a few exra hands, and then use their superior playing skills to catch up. They still lose money on these additional hands, but these hands allow them to make a little more on their legitimate hands due to the additional deception that they creat.")Page 18: "be preparded to play onl those hands in the first four groups". 97s is a group 5 hand...one group out.Ok, so I by no means consider myself an "expert" player but do feel I'm probably one of the best at the table...so...All right discuss.

[josh37]

i think it is more the raise that most people object to. hands like 97s play well in multi way pots, and poorly against bigger cards as you will rarely ever get the odds to draw to the hand you are chasing (and most of the time you will be chasing). i think that this is a limping hand if anything, as raising only means you will be playing against hands better than yours.the fact that you are utg and have not seen anyone else act yet is also a major disadvantage as any of the 8-9 people behind you can pick up a monster, and 3 bet it and you are in hot water. this is just my thought process. i dont want to tell you how to play, as there is not only one successful technique. anyone else?Josh