Bet Out or Check Raise -- You Decide

[Phil]

Turning Stone Casino $10/$20 limit , Full tableI'm utg with 97s and make it 2 bets to go...loose table, I want to play the hand for value. I've showed quite a few monsters but still havent gotten much respect. Folds to the button who calls, bb calls.Flop: 10 8 4, 2 clubs (i have backdoor spades).BB bets, I raise, Button 3 bets, BB caps, I call, BB calls.Pot: 18.5 bets.Turn: Queen of hearts.Check, I check, Button bets, BB calls, I call.River: 6 of clubs.Check, Now heres where it gets tricky. I put myself on hands down the best hand, but because clubs didn't and the old man Doyle on the button (hes really old) I put on a huge hand, either a set, top 2, or aces. If I bet out I get a call from him and a fold from the bb probably. But if I check, and he bets, I collect a probable 3-4 bets.Comments/questions?

[DamienCarroll]

Fold pre flop

[pokerbok]

Fold pre flop

[barhoom]

No chance of a flush?

[Doctor Straight]

check raise. check raise.check raising is such fun that you should do itwhenever you can. In your situation you mightget the 2nd guy betting, the 3rd guy calling thenyou raise and then get at least one of themcalling the raise.as long as nobody's got the flush you pull ina nice big pot.i LOSE money by trying to check raise too much.there's nothing i like better in poker thancheck raising.

[Blu3B3ar]

Looks like a easy value bet on the river as I do not want to risk losing river big bets. I am almost definitely calling if raised. The chance of pulling off a checkraise is small with one player left to act and on a scary flushed board.

[PokerMike]

I agree with BlueBear. It depends on the chance that Aces will check river through + chance that both will call a c/r.

[Phil]

F* sorry, I the river was the red 6...the flush missed. Comments now bluebear?

[josh37]

"I'm utg with 97s and make it 2 bets to go...loose table, I want to play the hand for value"how do you figure this? surely you could have picked a better spot than 97s to play a hand for value. from your posts around the place you seem like a much better player than i am (not hard) although i didnt think many people in the world could play 97s for value in early position. especially coming in raising. maybe suited connectors but not connectors with a gap. am i wrong in this?in your situation just bet it out. the last thing you want to happen is that you check raise only to find out that the old man 3 bets with the flush. if he plays back at you just call.Josh "gees i wish i wasnt a fish"

[Phil]

Read my second post, the flush didn't hit the river.Our games been going for about an hour and change, and I'm up 700 and change (not shabby at all for live action 10/20).Look, I'm by no means saying it was a great play to raise utg. But I do like to mix it up for several reasons. I'm raising this hand about 1/4 1/5 of the time from the first 3 positions. By 'this hand' I mean 67s-10Js, some of these being one gapped (97s is now my friends hand, he maanged to make the final 20 of the party poker million because of it).This raise does 2 things:1) If I only raised AQs or better from first position, I would never get action from some of the players at the table. I would miss several small bets from hands that I will have dominated when I raise AKs. If they've seen, maybe just once in a session, that I raised 56s from utg, down the road they will pay me with Q, K, or Ace no kicker several times over.Second, if you've played a lot of limit hold'em or read any of books, you'll know that although hand selection (and unfortunately in this case, position) are important, the major money to be made and the mistakes that add up are the play AFTER the flop. I feel like I've become good enough that I will know where I'm at on the flop -- If I'm up against a bigger flush draw, up against an overpair with just top pair, etc.So in turn, since I've decided I wanted to play, I surely should bring it in for a raise. Anyone calling 2 cold gives me more odds to draw out if need be (especially out of position) and if few call, as described, I also get the chance to "Play the rush" as there is a good chance I may blow someone off the winner heads up since "hes hot right now...probably has me kicked, or my middle pairs no good".Does that answer your question at all?