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Thread: Who pays the rake ?

  1. #1
    UnEducaterd is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Who pays the rake ?

    Pot winner ?

    OR

    The Losers in that pot ?

    Please give your reasons.

  2. #2
    FSL009 is offline PNW Grinder
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    So it depends on what you classify Paid as meaning.

    Firstly I would start with the theory that each person puts a certain amount in the pot and that rake is then taken out and what is left is what your fighting for so each person that lays money in the pot has currency taken away from their share despite that they eventually lose the pot in total. This is the everyone contributes to the rake theory.

    Secondly, I would move to the loser pays the rake theory this is because well the winner gets all of their money back and pays nothing to the dealer. Called the loser pays the rake theory.

    thirdly, I go to the winner pays the rake theory this is because he puts at risk a certain amount at cetain odds with an expectation of getting a fair reward but then eventually the rake comes out and the fair reward is diminished from the pot. he put at risk his entire amount to get back less than the actual odds he thought he would get on each hand. this is called the winner pays the rake theory.

    Fourthly and lastly, I go to the pool theory. when you sit down at the table you expect to have a certain amount (your buy in) available to you for play and at risk. Most people could even quantify there expected value from the participants at a typical table based on style of player, and amount put on the table by those players. However, as the rake goes around those players are feeding on a pool of money that is ever diminishing. Without new players coming to the table to replace broke people the pool, will eventually just dissappear for everyone. we are again back to that everyone pays the rake theory...

    For the sake of my mental health I stand in the loser pays...but in reality I think the winner is the loser in this deal if you know what I mean....
    Kd FTW

  3. #3
    Spikey's Avatar
    Spikey is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    It's a very good question and one I never got around to analysing fully. This effort will be no exception but I have a few more leads now.

    1. The players that get the rake back can be said to have paid it. I once sent an email to pokerstars I think it was suggesting that it should be the pot losers that are assumed to have paid the rake and therefore should get the vip points. Mike Caro once said that the losers pay the rake and the winners, so why not give money back to the losers in the hope that they would play longer.

    2. It's the math I would be interested in exploring more. If you are calling and only call if you have +EV after the rake would be deducted, then I guess you aren't paying the rake, the bettor is. But I have not explored this to any depth and haven't seen anyone give any good math on this, so I wouldn't know any which way. Maybe the bettor can bet an amount knowing full well that the opponent will subtract rake to determine his EV. Maybe in this case he has to bet more and is thus paying the rake. Who knows?

    3. The gamblers that don't use the comps they are entitled to and the free drinks they are entitled to.


    One thing for sure. The guy who goes to the casino and pays for his one drink and walks around and has a good time without gambling sure isn't paying any rake. He is the big big winner.
    If you want to die early, just retire -- Jeff Kennett

  4. #4
    Johnny Too Bad is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    It is surely the loser(s) who pay the rake, but it is the winner who decides how much the loser will give the dealer as a tip.
    JTB

  5. #5
    Spikey's Avatar
    Spikey is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    Yeah and it's the winner who decides what girls the loser will pay for too.

    Don't we all know those dreams that started us gambling.
    If you want to die early, just retire -- Jeff Kennett

  6. #6
    UnEducaterd is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    WOW

    Very informative posts so far, guys, cheers.

    Appreciate the input.

    For years, we would all thought getting every cent back we put into a pot, plus a "WIN" be it almost 1:1 on what we put in or 4:1 in a multiway huge pot meant the losers were funding the rake.

    Then Linda Johnson ( CARD PLAYER / PARTY POKER CRUISES / BUFFET QUEEN 1983 - present day ( unsdisputed, 13 - 19 plates, min. ) had a clash with Mike Caro over the " who really pays".

    The best story re: rake/tips i ever heard was the Oklahoma Johnny Hale anecdote where his opponent was really giving the shy female dealer a rough ass time verbally and intimidating her no end.

    They were in a pot, heads up, and OK Johnny won it.

    The loser heightened his tirade toward the dealer as a result of latest bad beat and to this end, Johnny ( ever the gentleman gambler ( and the name of his autobigraphy ) split the pot in two and said to the young dealer " Please don't worry about that so and so ....here is ALL the money he just put into that pot, as a courtesy, so you can go out after this shift and get happy on his misery !!! "....and gave her half the pot.

    Old Southern Class.

    The game of poker cannot be run without the non players and providers being paid....Professionalism reduces when self run games and player dealers etc.

    SO if you can recover all your money that you put into a pot and collect the rest from others ( less vigs/measer/tips/stripper phone #'s etc ) then u will be a winner of sorts...not necessarily as big as u may be if u play your mate heads up on backyard table for real notes n coins.

  7. #7
    thret is offline PNW Elite
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    Okay, I appreciate that people are keen to overthink this but it is actually quite simple. The winner pays the rake. He takes all the money and pays the rake back to the dealer. The losers have only given money to the winner.
    How did you learn to play poker? By playing darts? - The Grand
    All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. - Mark Twain
    Prosperity supposes capacity. Win the lottery, and you are an able man. Have but luck, and you will have the rest; be fortunate, and you will be thought great. - V Hugo

  8. #8
    hip
    hip is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    both. u cant have a pot without a loser and a winner

  9. #9
    106o is offline PNW Lurker
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    Quote Originally Posted by thret View Post
    Okay, I appreciate that people are keen to overthink this but it is actually quite simple. The winner pays the rake. He takes all the money and pays the rake back to the dealer. The losers have only given money to the winner.
    This. Once you put money in the pot it's not yours any more...

  10. #10
    Fat Kid No Life is offline PNW Lurker
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    Default Re: Who pays the rake ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 106o View Post
    This. Once you put money in the pot it's not yours any more...
    Miss-deals tho ...
    No life from 1991 - Present.

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