If you play poker are you gambling?

[Ace Fire]

I would like to know how many people who play poker don't think they are gambling.
Last year I was playing a live tournament and this guy who was an online winning MTT player and also had a real job as a scientest tried to inform me that he wasn't gambling when he sat down to play poker. I remember thinking this way when I started out playing but realised quickly enough that I was kidding myself.
I tried to reason with this educated man that the casino he was in, was in the buisness of gambling and just because they were winning because of an edge didn't mean they were not gambling with the patrons. He believed that he wasn't gambling because he was playing and winning at the game. He believed that the losing poker players were gambling.
Is this a flaw in logic or just semantics?

[JK.]

Hi Ace fire,
Ofcourse playing poker is gambling.Some are better at it than others but it is still gambling.
when I was younger and played against amateurs I rarely lost.I thought I was not gambling since I rarely lost.
later I started playing much better players and found my win rate changed.
Despite all my friends considering me being a gambler,I refused to accept the truth.
Now I realise,winning or losing does not change the fact that playing cards,horses,dogs,casino etc.,is gambling.
The funny thing about human nature is that after a little win,we all consider ourselves champions and not gamblers.
Win one tournament and we start thinking we can take on the world.
We have all done this.And I mean all of us.All poker players have gone through this delusional stage.
The one aussie who stands out was Joe Hachem.
He got very,very lucky in a big tournament and his head grew proportionally to the importance of the tournament.
Overnight he became the best Australian player,no ,the best player in the world.
He wrote a book,about himself ofcourse.
He did a TV show on poker as the worlds best player should.
Delusional.
The guy can hardly play but cosiders himself the best.
Other examples are Grunter and Strong Play.
All these players will tell you,poker is not gambling.they believe that they have an edge over other simple mortals and with this edge,poker is not gambling.
Delusional.
Ofcourse,in the short run,gambling can make you money.But it is still gambling.
Zelko Ranagoic,the worlds biggest gambler who through his genius changed the odds in his favour in all forms of gambling.
He stayed clear of poker because he realised that he could not change the odds in his favour and beat the rake .
He was a realist.
Lucky for the Internet and the casinos,most poker players are delisional and think they are so good,or will one day be good enough to beat the rake.
Pure delusion.

[Yorkshire Pudding]

Poker is gambling because there is always a huge element of luck but some do not refer to it as gambling because of the nature of the game. Many will argue that because you are getting your money in good that it is not gambling, more of a risk analysis/management roll or that it is similar to trading stocks and shares (which is glorified gambling IMO)

[JK.]

Everything in life is a gamble.Catching a plane,taking a new girlfriend,lending someone money,buying a house etc.
Why would playing poker be any different?

[Al]

I actually think poker is the opposite of gambling. Getting your money is as a 60% fav and losing the hand isnt gambling, its printing money.

And by the way I think the marketing of the casinos in calling games like roulette and pokies as "gambling" is genius. Gambling implies you might or can win whereas when you play a pokie you can only ever get say 90% of what you put in back, so it really should be called "losing".

[murraycod1]

Getting your money is as a 60% fav and losing the hand isnt gambling, its printing money".

No it isn't

[Al]

No it isn't

Snappy comeback.

[Guru Bob]

No it isn't

Yes it is (I can be snappy too Al)

I am only a very casual on line low stakes player these days but I have played a LOT of poker ( tens of thousands of hours)and do not believe that I ever gambled. I was never a pro,as I had other taxable income but made good money over 10 years and "retired" after the local fish dried up and the house got greedy.

It was at about the time I stopped playing at the Adelaide casino that a game of poker I was participating in at the Adelaide Bridge club was raided and I was charged will illegal gambling along with 8 or 9 others.

In court I and most others pleaded guilty and were convicted and fined $50.It simply did not make sense for me to go to the cost and inconvenience of fighting the charge to save a lousy $50 fine.

JK and the dealer on the other hand did fight the charge as they would have lost their jobs at the casino if they were convicted.

JK,with the help of Dr Bob,proved that poker is a game of SKILL and not a game of chance;the case was thrown out of court.

Several years later the Australian Poker Championships were raided and over 90 people charged.

Using the earlier case as a precedent the charges were again dismissed in court.

Poker is a game of skill,not chance,ergo it is NOT GAMBLING !!!

Just look at my sig.........I have had it for many years on Pokernetwork

[JK.]

I would like to know how many people who play poker don't think they are gambling.
Last year I was playing a live tournament and this guy who was an online winning MTT player and also had a real job as a scientest tried to inform me that he wasn't gambling when he sat down to play poker. I remember thinking this way when I started out playing but realised quickly enough that I was kidding myself.
I tried to reason with this educated man that the casino he was in, was in the buisness of gambling and just because they were winning because of an edge didn't mean they were not gambling with the patrons. He believed that he wasn't gambling because he was playing and winning at the game. He believed that the losing poker players were gambling.
Is this a flaw in logic or just semantics?

Hi Bob,
When I say cash poker is gambling,it is gambling for most people.
Tournament poker is a gamble for all players.
Any tournament player who gets lucky in a few tournaments and starts thinking he /she is the best,
is suffering from delusion.
I know we all want to be "best" at something but sometimes we must face reality.
When I took on the police in Adelaide on the question skill/luck,I argued on behalf of cash poker not tournament poker.

[SwoopAE]

In the short term, poker is gambling. In the long term, poker is investing if you're good enough. For MTT poker though, the long term takes tens of thousands of games to achieve, which is something you can pretty much never do live, and which takes years to reach your true expectation online.