playing bottom set against multiple opponents

[grunter]

this hand came up for me in a 2/4 blinds NL game on party. Had only sat down about ten minutes earlier but i recognised some names and upon checking notes realised that it was a rather loose table. Usually I would muck 3/3 in early position but I thought a min raise may induce a couple of callers and I would let it go if re-raised. I didn't expect eight callers! When i hit bottom set while obviously in a good position it is still dangerous. How do I play this? Do I check-raise, lead out with pot size or 2/3 pot size bet, or push all-in or are there other options?$400 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, February 18, 21:39:01 ET 2006Table Charon (No DP) (Real Money)Seat 10 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9 Seat 3: grunter321 ( $193.78 )Seat 8: Arsenik66 ( $396.15 )Seat 4: pootie333 ( $318.40 )Seat 7: JonnyARUBA ( $310.21 )Seat 9: byebyeng ( $285.73 )Seat 10: thesons ( $194.89 )Seat 1: goldendogrec ( $39.25 )Seat 5: Jonkrease ( $95.10 )Seat 2: joseyy ( $112 )goldendogrec posts small blind [$2].joseyy posts big blind [$4].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to grunter321 [ 3d 3c ]grunter321 raises [$8].pootie333 calls [$8].Jonkrease calls [$8].JonnyARUBA calls [$8].Arsenik66 calls [$8].byebyeng calls [$8].thesons calls [$8].goldendogrec calls [$6].joseyy calls [$4].** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, 9d, Jc ]

[pokerbok]

Don't check raise, bet.

[footy]

grunter, i think you're in really good shape in this pot. even though eight people have seen the flop it is relatively safe. there are likely to be some straight draws out there and the possibility of middle set (i think JJ probably reraises preflop), but other than that you are sitting well.as pokerbok said you should definately bet. i have found in large mulit-way pots that it often checks around because no one is too sure that their holdong is strong enough to bet into eight other people (they would either have a set or two pair, poss AJ). the last thing you want here is to give a free card. i would bet out around $72-90 which is pot or pot-and-a-bit to make the draws pay to play. if you get raised then it's read dependant as to how you should play it from there.

[grunter]

thanks for the input so far, mark and footy. The first question was for future reference as the hand played out a little differently.SB checks, The BB, usually aggressive(with $104 in chips) goes all-in. I'm next to act, what do I do? Call, re-raise all-in to get rid of any draws who may be enticed by the odds (only 2.5 to 1 though) or do I lay it down. I can't put any of my opponents on 9/9 or j/j, so i figure i am in front at this stage.

[phil markey]

as a general principle i prefer to push on the turn when the drawing hands that call will be making a big mistake - with no action before me i would bet something close to the pot with the rest going in on any turn card - once there is a push in front of me however there is plenty of money in the pot to protect so i like pushing on the flopi find it near impossible to fold - you have excellent redraws against a straight and if its a loose table you will get action from top pair hands that are close to drawing deadphil markey

[Octavian30]

By my reckoning there iis $72 in the pot and BB bets $104.....I would say you are either under setted or well ahead (AJ or J9 probably) - as a player named Lexotic I keep meeting on Absolute says and does all the f**king time - ALL IN BABYyou need to shut everyone else out... and if he has 99 or JJ well you pay him...

[Blu3B3ar]

The preflop min-raise does not achieve anything other than inflating the pot out-of-position, possibly making it harder for you to play and because you have a pure drawing hand, you don't have to thin the field unnecessarily, that is, if you play 33 for pure set value, you might as well keep the field open. With your relatively shallow stack, you have to automatically shove in when bet into on the flop.

[pokerbok]

I don't agree that you have to shove on the flop. 100% you don't even contemplate folding, folding a set on an uncoordinated board to a single players bet on the flop online is WRONG (except for maybe in the most extreme of circumstances). I disagree that you have to push though, you can smooth call and push any turn. Smooth calling will induce bad players to make bad calls with T8 or QT, you want that, especially because the guy who pushed all in might hold QT as well and you can't protect against him anyway, so hopefully you just get more money in the pot for when / if you hold up.

[grunter]

thanks for your responses.I agree with your thoughts mark and that is exactly how i played it. I smooth called, player in seat 8 pushed all-in (large stack) and seat 10 called, I called for my last $90 odd. Turn Ace, River 9. I won a substantial pot with 3s full of nines. Original raiser held j/2!! Seat 8 held a/j, seat 10 a/k. Weird hand but worked out well. Just thought i'd post and get your thoughts on the way it shpuld've been played. Despite the result wasn't sure if the smooth-call of the initial raise was a good play or not.

[Octavian30]

I get you point Mark - the lack of that sort of higher thinking is proably why I am going down fast at 1/2...... sigh