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Thread: poker boom of 2014

  1. #21
    Spikey's Avatar
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
    Nobody can make a living 1-tabling online poker unless you're playing nosebleed stakes cash games (or at the very least upper midstakes HU cash)

    MTTs are currently the softest form of poker, where even a relatively average tag like me can make 50k+ a year (150k this year apparently, winning two majors helps) quite easily. Truly elite tournament players like Edison will make six figures every year online. It's a simply question of math

    Basically, if you can play 5000 games at an ABI of $80, that's 400k invested. At a +25% ROI (which is very attainable with good field selection, solid fundamentals and decent all-around poker ability) that's 100k/yr on average - which is around what I think my expectation for 2014 is. In 2013 my volume and ABI were in that region (that's only 14ish tourneys a day if you play every day or 19 a day if you play 5 days a week, if you can play even six tables that's easily attainable, obviously easier if you can play more)

    Truly elite guys who crank out volume or have a higher ROI can easily have an expectation of 200k a year in online tournaments.

    No one is too old to learn to multi-table, I typed at 10 words per minute when I started, now I type at 80+ words per minute. It's not a question of actions per minute until you start getting to 12 tables or more really, anyone can click a mouse quickly enough, it's a matter of getting your thought process to the stage where you can look at any given hand and board and action, immediately take your read on the player, notes or hud stats into account (whatever you prefer to use) and know exactly what to do. I would estimate that I only take more than five seconds to know roughly what to do in about 1 in 100 hands. Obviously if you're playing against elite regs it's harder, but then again if you're playing higher stakes games you should be playing less tables and therefore have more time to make those decisions.

    Some people simply don't have what it takes to beat online poker, whether it's tilt issues, ADD/attention issues, lack of basic intellect, lack of willingness to learn solid fundamentals or whatever else, but if you're of above average intelligence and willing to get coached by someone who is good at poker (eg. someone who wins consistently over a sample of thousands of tournaments, or hundreds of thousands of cash game hands) then there's no reason you can't be successful.

    An attitude like 'i'm too old to change my ways' just makes you a fish, who is there to gamble, not to invest in order to receive a return on investment. I don't have the raw poker ability that guys like Edison Nguyen and Jono Karamalikis have. I don't have the ability to mass table and put volume in that the guys who get Supernova Elite each year have. I don't have the raw intellect that some of the elite guys have. I'm never going to be playing nosebleed stakes with Ivey and co, because I know where my skill ceiling is, but I work hard to keep my game at that level and I choose to play in games that are both beatable and maximise my hourly rate and because of that I make enough money to live comfortably from poker. There are another 20-30 guys or so in Australia who do the same thing with MTTs, and plenty in cash games as well.

    In live poker, below 5/5, the rake WILL eat all of your profit. In MTTs that isn't even close to true, especially with the 30-something percent rakeback or more that is standard on all of the sites if you put in decent volume
    The reason I don’t multi-table is because I need to pay attention to the game and if someone makes a big bet I need to know if he’s bluffing or not. In my early days of playing online I often got it wrong and it’s where I had to put effort in. I believe this one skill is what turned me around from a losing player to a winning player. I can’t do this multi-tabling. I need to watch the players and their moods, how the tempo of the game changes, their decisions over the last 5 or 10 hands.
    Knowing whether a player put in a big bluff is not a mathematical skill. In fact I’m sure math is a very small part of poker, to win you need to be a very good reader. Take into account that my opponents are likely good readers of me and I have to counter that. My opponents are likely to read whether I would call or fold a big bet and make such bets accordingly, so I have to read them and do the opposite. It’s a difficult skill, but one I’m getting much better at.
    Also note that I bluff myself now and quite well, only I need to also keep track of how often I do it. Players quickly work it out so I can’t keep doing it. With one table I can remember when and who I bluffed and how many times, with a caveat not to do it again with them for a few rounds. If I multi-table I can’t do that, I can’t remember anything mostly, I’m just playing the cards and not the opponents which is all wrong.
    Also, I enjoy the game if I play one table, watching the dynamics of the game is enjoyable. Playing more than one table is a skill I might have not even been able to do when I was younger, I need to concentrate on a game to make decisions. If a game gets boring I will play 2 tables and look for a better game, maybe even 3. If I find one though then I close the other table(s). I do seek out fast games though, so I’m likely not playing other players that are multi-tabling, and when I do, well they are so easy to bluff and they seemingly never work it out. They are good for stealing blinds off.
    My intention is to play nose-bleed stakes though, yes, I intend to move up into the big games and concentrate on one game only.

    It was a couple of years ago I left tournaments after the rot set in. I was actually making good bets and good calls but got doomswitched. If it hasn’t happened to you then you likely don’t know what it’s like and even don’t believe it can happen. However, there was a time I could do nothing right, copped bad beats incessantly when I did get it right, and I left it for micro-limits. Note that 35% of online players at a thread on another forum think that online poker is rigged.

    But ok, I’ll take what you’ve said on board and I’ll try tournaments again. My cash game skill has improved, and some of that is likely transferable. We’ll see how I go. I’ll do a $1k buy-in tomorrow. As far as playing 6 tourneys at once, well you’re mad! Although 9max is different to 6max that I play in cash games, 9max is in fact much slower and maybe I can play 2 tourneys at once.

    Field selection is important too in cash games. However, to do field selection in tourneys you’ll be keeping a lot of notes on players. In cash games you just use the table stats. There’s no such thing before a tourney begins, only a player list.
    If you want to die early, just retire -- Jeff Kennett

  2. #22
    ben dee is offline PNW Railbird
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    The reason I don’t multi-table is because I need to pay attention to the game and if someone makes a big bet I need to know if he’s bluffing or not. In my early days of playing online I often got it wrong and it’s where I had to put effort in. I believe this one skill is what turned me around from a losing player to a winning player. I can’t do this multi-tabling. I need to watch the players and their moods, how the tempo of the game changes, their decisions over the last 5 or 10 hands.
    Knowing whether a player put in a big bluff is not a mathematical skill. In fact I’m sure math is a very small part of poker, to win you need to be a very good reader. Take into account that my opponents are likely good readers of me and I have to counter that. My opponents are likely to read whether I would call or fold a big bet and make such bets accordingly, so I have to read them and do the opposite. It’s a difficult skill, but one I’m getting much better at.
    Also note that I bluff myself now and quite well, only I need to also keep track of how often I do it. Players quickly work it out so I can’t keep doing it. With one table I can remember when and who I bluffed and how many times, with a caveat not to do it again with them for a few rounds. If I multi-table I can’t do that, I can’t remember anything mostly, I’m just playing the cards and not the opponents which is all wrong.
    Also, I enjoy the game if I play one table, watching the dynamics of the game is enjoyable. Playing more than one table is a skill I might have not even been able to do when I was younger, I need to concentrate on a game to make decisions. If a game gets boring I will play 2 tables and look for a better game, maybe even 3. If I find one though then I close the other table(s). I do seek out fast games though, so I’m likely not playing other players that are multi-tabling, and when I do, well they are so easy to bluff and they seemingly never work it out. They are good for stealing blinds off.
    My intention is to play nose-bleed stakes though, yes, I intend to move up into the big games and concentrate on one game only.

    It was a couple of years ago I left tournaments after the rot set in. I was actually making good bets and good calls but got doomswitched. If it hasn’t happened to you then you likely don’t know what it’s like and even don’t believe it can happen. However, there was a time I could do nothing right, copped bad beats incessantly when I did get it right, and I left it for micro-limits. Note that 35% of online players at a thread on another forum think that online poker is rigged.

    But ok, I’ll take what you’ve said on board and I’ll try tournaments again. My cash game skill has improved, and some of that is likely transferable. We’ll see how I go. I’ll do a $1k buy-in tomorrow. As far as playing 6 tourneys at once, well you’re mad! Although 9max is different to 6max that I play in cash games, 9max is in fact much slower and maybe I can play 2 tourneys at once.

    Field selection is important too in cash games. However, to do field selection in tourneys you’ll be keeping a lot of notes on players. In cash games you just use the table stats. There’s no such thing before a tourney begins, only a player list.

    #tl.dr

    #wall.of.text

    #cliffs

    #cliff.of.cliffs

  3. #23
    Spikey's Avatar
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ben dee View Post
    #tl.dr
    SwoopAE has more words than mine, what are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by ben dee View Post
    #cliff.of.cliffs
    I can type at 80wpm too so that's not why I can't multi-table.
    If you want to die early, just retire -- Jeff Kennett

  4. #24
    ben dee is offline PNW Railbird
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    SwoopAE has more words than mine, what are you talking about?


    I can type at 80wpm too so that's not why I can't multi-table.


    SwoopAE =

    Winning player of 150k + / year

    EVERY WORD he writes = value


    Spikky =

    Cannot multi-table
    Cannot adapt to 2014
    Cannot get anyone to read his thoughts


    Ben Dee

  5. #25
    Spikey's Avatar
    Spikey is offline PNW Amateur
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ben dee View Post
    SwoopAE =

    Winning player of 150k + / year

    EVERY WORD he writes = value


    Spikky =

    Cannot multi-table
    Cannot adapt to 2014
    Cannot get anyone to read his thoughts


    Ben Dee
    Hey Ben, let’s talk about that @#$#@$ bastard that borrowed $9k off me and never paid it back; doesn’t want to know me any more. Do you know him? Maybe we should go over this in more fine detail you #$#@@$ bastard. That’s GLEN ATHANASIOU that borrowed the money. Is that correct??????
    If you want to die early, just retire -- Jeff Kennett

  6. #26
    ben dee is offline PNW Railbird
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    I met him in the early 2000's

    Borrowed $300 off my mate and never repaid

    What a cunt

    Sorry to hear matey

  7. #27
    ben dee is offline PNW Railbird
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    I met him in the early 2000's

    Borrowed $300 off my mate and never repaid

    What a cunt

    Sorry to hear matey

  8. #28
    Spikey's Avatar
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    So who are you if you aren't Glen Athanasiou?
    If you want to die early, just retire -- Jeff Kennett

  9. #29
    ben dee is offline PNW Railbird
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    Benjamin D' ( insert long italian name HERE )

    We all have pseudonyms

    Friend in Adelaide, John hairdreesser , says your guy glen the gofer lost the plot to gambling alcohol and intravenous street drugs

    Fucking scum

    Wow those diseases get so many players

  10. #30
    ben dee is offline PNW Railbird
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    Default Re: poker boom of 2014

    Benjamin D' ( insert long italian name HERE )

    We all have pseudonyms

    Friend in Adelaide, John hairdreesser , says your guy glen the gofer lost the plot to gambling alcohol and intravenous street drugs

    Fucking scum

    Wow those diseases get so many players

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