Another ridiculous ruling in the APPT - PLO event

[bigfatbastard]

This seemed pretty straight forward and easy to deal with, but it turned into
a bit of a farce when a Star City "regular" got his own way completely AGAINST
both the rule and spirit of the game.

It went like this:
Two players all-in after the flop.
Chips are pushed forward, but not counted just yet.
Turn and river are opened and a winner determined.
Chips are then counted down with the losing player's chips counted to a figure.
The winner's chips are then counted and it is seen that he has about 600 chips
more than the loser and the dealer begins to slide the loser's chips toward the
pot and the winner . . . .
THEN it is realised that the "loser" actually is the winner and the "winner" is
actually the loser. Danglers were overlooked vs big pair.

This is where the STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE of Star City comes into play.

Every player paying any attention to the proceedings AND the dealer himself all
knew that the eventual loser should have "about" 600 chips left over.

With the Floor-man there and watching over the announced "all-in, call" and possible
elimination, the actual loser (WM) reaches into the pot and "agrees" (with himself)
that he should have about . . . 2000 chips, instead of the proper c.600.

Several players vociferously object this notion and protest, including myself, but the
Floor's reaction was to suggest that "we'll have to stop things while we check the
cameras" and "we don't want to delay things". Several MORE objections later as
well as pointing out that a potential triple-up with 600 chips is a whole lot different
to a potential triple-up with 2000 chips.

Between the Floor ignoring the protests and simply FAILING to do the right and
proper thing, the eventual loser ultimately got his 2000 chips and then in fact went
on to triple-up, exactly as it was pointed out to the Floor.
Within a couple of minutes, the SAME Floor announced that there would be a
10-minute BREAK!

At the time of the incident there were less than five minutes left in the level.
He knew that the break was due almost immediately, and yet he CHOSE to ignore
the rules, side with a Star City REGULAR, and completely f*ck-over the true spirit
and propriety of an $1100 PLO event.

The Floor's actions affected not only THIS hand, but it had follow-on effects to and
through several other hands further along. How could the Floor fail to act properly
with all of this in consideration? Oh, that's right, he was a REGULAR!!!

This is the APPT F-F-S, not the $2 kiddies game down the street.
It was an ABSOLUTE JOKE.

Players DO NOT decide how much they should get back; they get back whatever
is due to them - NO MORE, NO LESS! This is NOT a kiddies game APPT!!!

If the cameras were needed to be used then THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED!!!

The opponents chips were counted out, and as such the pot could EASILY have
been RECONSTRUCTED from scratch to get the exact and PROPER amount to
be returned to the player. NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE ACTION should have taken
place. A bullshit GUESS is NOT good enough. It was CHEATING!!!

They COULD HAVE fixed and easily fixed problem, but instead FUCKED UP an
otherwise perfectly decent and reasonable tournament.

Star City, your actions, inactions and failures SUCK.

This APPT event was made to be a JOKE by the foolish actions of a Star City
official. I wish I was a regular and got special treatment from staff in an $1100
APPT official tournament event.

This was NOT a cash game where the players come to a mutually acceptable
agreement to divide the pot amicably. IT WAS AN $1100 TOURNAMENT!!!

What other rules do they carelessly disregard?
To whom are they accountable?

Star City's cavalier attitude to the rules and their implementation are worthy of
nothing less than the highest level of ridicule. They were disgusting.
Thanks for FUCKING UP my APPT/Star City experience.

BFB

[thret]

Ummm, I don't understand how either stack could be counted down without determining how big the pot should be. Star City ftw.

Who was the regular? If he knowingly lied about his stack, that is cheating. Might as well out him.

[TurnRiva]

tl;dr

[thret]

Originally Posted by bigfatbastard

It went like this:
Two players all-in after the flop.
Chips are pushed forward, but not counted just yet.
Turn and river are opened and a winner determined.
Chips are then counted down with the losing player's chips counted to a figure.
The winner's chips are then counted and it is seen that he has about 600 chips
more than the loser and the dealer begins to slide the loser's chips toward the
pot and the winner . . . .
THEN it is realised that the "loser" actually is the winner and the "winner" is
actually the loser. Danglers were overlooked vs big pair.
Every player paying any attention to the proceedings AND the dealer himself all
knew that the eventual loser should have "about" 600 chips left over.

With the Floor-man there and watching over the announced "all-in, call" and possible
elimination, the actual loser (WM) reaches into the pot and "agrees" (with himself)
that he should have about 2000 chips.

Between the Floor ignoring the protests and simply FAILING to do the right and
proper thing, the eventual loser ultimately got his 2000 chips.

BFB

Cliffnotes.

[bigfatbastard]

Originally Posted by thret

Ummm, I don't understand how either stack could be counted down without determining how big the pot should be. Star City ftw.

Who was the regular? If he knowingly lied about his stack, that is cheating. Might as well out him.

He didn't "lie" about the size of his stack, he arbitrarily TOOK what he wanted,
rather than what was due to him honestly and fairly. So yeah, he CHEATED!!
That cheating was exacerbated by Star-City's soft-play with their regular.

The pot was calculated for the raise, which was then re-raised all-in and called.
The subsequent re-raise was less than a "pot" raise and that's where it stood
without being calculated precisely until this monumental stuff-up/cheating/
incompetence episode.

I may have already, "accidentally" put his initials somewhere in the post.
He's not a bad bloke, not saying anything different, but this was pretty slack.

BFB

[bigfatbastard]

Originally Posted by TurnRiva

tl;dr

Poor chap.

Life must be so hard.

How do you go with street signs?

Or news headlines?

Too much?

Oh well.

BFB

Oops, this is probably too long too.

[Nauv]

Lol at this story if true. Star city was not the casino I was referring to earlier in the other thread.

But it does beg the question if the ruling would have remained the same in the appt 6 max event if instead of Michael Egan being the villain it was let's say another star city regular.

Most ppl have probably heard about a reg on this forum that won his first live tourney a few years back and the verbal slouch he got into with a live reg and was even physically threatened when he called out the live reg for a clear angle shoot. I was at the table at the time. It was complete bullshit

At an anzpt event this year I was playing at a table in a tournament and saw a reg sitting at the table talking on his phone while a hand he was not involved in was in progress. Numerous supervisors where nearby and did nothing.

About 5 mins later I decided to send a quick text, while seated and also not in a hand. I know this was completely wrong but did it anyway as no one seemed to care. I recieved a stern warning by a supervisor and was disgusted. I muttered something along the lines of 'I fucking hate that regs get treated different to others here'

Greame putt who was two seats to my left said 'I'm a reg and i don't get special treatment' the guy directly to my left agreed with him which made me even more furious.... Then....

5 mins later the reg that was originally on the phone gets back on his fone... The same supervisor walks straight past him, sees him on the fone... Does NOTHING....

I turn and stare at Greame and the other guy to my left and the guy to my left concedes...'Maybe you've got a point'

There have been numerous other double standards that I won't bother to mention but it sux for live poker. Danny and the team at stars do an awesome job I feel but certain casino stuff need to drop their chumminess with regs at big Tourny series...

[BubbleBoy]

If the stacks where not cut down and spread so the cameras would be able to see them, then the supervisor would ask the dealer.

If they both couldn't tell how much was left over then the 'loser' would get the 2000 he said he had.

If it was something different to this, then its a bad ruling.


Some supervisors do act differently to players, but isn't that the same in any business? Any person that has been going to the same place for years is going to grow some sort of relationship.

[Nauv]

Originally Posted by BubbleBoy

Some supervisors do act differently to players, but isn't that the same in any business? Any person that has been going to the same place for years is going to grow some sort of relationship.

Fair point but I don't think it can apply to a competitive game where ones gain is at anothers expense.

[BubbleBoy]

Originally Posted by Nauv

Fair point but I don't think it can apply to a competitive game where ones gain is at anothers expense.

I don't think using a phone at the table is an advantage. I've never seen a supervisor act differently to things that would do that.