etiquette?

[FSL009]

So this was a live tourney where i had my earphones in so couldn't hear what the other end of the table was saying clearly at the time.

I put a big raise in post flop. My stack was about 2/3 of starting at the time.

the guy asks me how much I got...and I thought he asked what have you got...so i told him same as him probably...

A guy in the middle of the table then snorts and tells him my chip count. At which point i realise he wants my count...which was like 1/2 what he had.

I am thinking if he wants to know he can count them....cause they are there to see...other players should stay out of it. i keep count of relative stacks in a tourney and because of that i feel i have an advantage live to people who dont keep track of where each player is. I keep it in my head as over M of 20 or under M of 10 or in the middle...that way i know regarding odds on small pairs for sets and so forth. i also keep count of the pot...Maths head...what can i say.

so at each change over of blinds i have to rework in my head where people are at...and after major pots i do the same.

so my first question is 1. should i be giving an accurate answer or any answer?
2. if I dont answer should someone else be allowed to communicate it?
3. if he cant count them is that my problem?

thoughts?

[Zutroy]

IMO

1. Absolutely no obligation to provide an answer at all.
2. Others can chime in if they like, but it’s up to the player in question to find an accurate count, although I’m not too keen on others getting involved personally.
3. Only your problem if he can’t count them because he can’t see them. You’ve just got to make sure your chips are visible for him to count, or make them accessible for the dealer to count them out if he wants it to be accurate.

[Suicide_KINGS98]

if wants to count it, form wher he is sitting let him count it.... or ask the dealer.

otherwise, prob just tryna get a read on u.

[g-matic]

I reckon......

1. Yes. Its a courtesy, and not hard to do.
2. Yes. It is human nature for people to 'help out' and to stick their nose in - lets face it, live tourneys are long and boring, a chip count could have been the most exciting thing that has happened in the last half hour.
3. It is only your problem if you are hiding your big denom. chips at the back of your stack.

Why is it that you place such value in keeping your chip count a secret ?

One word to the dealer and they will count it down whether you like it or not. If you are worried about giving up tells, take a moment - count your chips - give an answer then you can plug your i pod back in.

Love Always

[thret]

1. No. Say or do whatever you think will help him make the decision you want. He is technically supposed to ask the dealer how many chips you have, not you.
2. Nope, it is also technically out of line for another player to interfere. They should only do so if it is a genuine question as the player cannot see the chips and the dealer is slow. Eg. if one player is in seat 1 and the other in seat 9, or one player is short sighted etc. If the player is trying to angle shoot or is stalling, and you don't like him, go ahead and interfere otherwise be polite and say nothing.
3. You are obligated to have your bigger chips visible to all players, if you do not have your chips stacked in a way so that they are visible you are at fault and should be given a warning. The dealer will inform you of this and ask that you restack your chips.

[FSL009]

My chips were stacked correctly I was on the dealer side on the corner seat (if there was a corner) he was the other side on of the dealer and same corner seat so he did not have a clear view...

i also miss heard the question.

anyway sounds like it was sort of okay and i should be more helpful..oh well.

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Originally Posted by FSL009

So this was a live tourney where i had my earphones in so couldn't hear what the other end of the table was saying clearly at the time.

I put a big raise in post flop. My stack was about 2/3 of starting at the time.

the guy asks me how much I got...and I thought he asked what have you got...so i told him same as him probably...

A guy in the middle of the table then snorts and tells him my chip count. At which point i realise he wants my count...which was like 1/2 what he had.

I am thinking if he wants to know he can count them....cause they are there to see...other players should stay out of it. i keep count of relative stacks in a tourney and because of that i feel i have an advantage live to people who dont keep track of where each player is. I keep it in my head as over M of 20 or under M of 10 or in the middle...that way i know regarding odds on small pairs for sets and so forth. i also keep count of the pot...Maths head...what can i say.

so at each change over of blinds i have to rework in my head where people are at...and after major pots i do the same.

so my first question is 1. should i be giving an accurate answer or any answer?
2. if I dont answer should someone else be allowed to communicate it?
3. if he cant count them is that my problem?

thoughts?

Sounds like your being just plain annoying on the table..... Nothing against people listening to music but make sure you can hear people.

And nothing against someone answering the question.

[tsapy]

it speeds things up if you just say "I have about ..."

[Michael Josem]

Originally Posted by FSL009

1. should i be giving an accurate answer or any answer?

You have a simple choice here: You either give an accurate answer to the best of your ability, or you do not answer.

Lying about your stack size is inappopriate.

This would seem to be a fairly clear breach of Poker Etiquette as described in Robert's Rules of Poker here: 1 - PROPER BEHAVIOR -- Poker Rules - Roberts Rules of Poker

Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot.

2. if I dont answer should someone else be allowed to communicate it?

I don't think that Robert's Rules of Poker is particularly clear on this, but if you stack your chips consistently with this rule:

19. Any player is entitled to a clear view of an opponent’s chips. Higher denomination chips should be easily visible

(Source: Chapter 2 House Policies -- Poker Rules - Roberts Rules of Poker)

...then you'll be fine.

If you were another player at the table, I think it would be best to not say anything that may affect the play of the hand or the betting decisions.

3. if he cant count them is that my problem?

The end result of this line of thinking is that the other player gets up and studies your chips intently for a few minutes to come to an accurate count.

I believe that poker is a test of various attributes such as mathematics, logic, perception, mental strength, and so on. I don't think poker should be a test of silly side arguments like this.

Thus, I believe that you should either cooperate fully with your opponent's request for a reasonable chip count, or say nothing. Lying about your chip stack is entirely inappropriate I believe.


This post is pretty much the nut worst answer on every point:

Originally Posted by thret

1. No. Say or do whatever you think will help him make the decision you want. He is technically supposed to ask the dealer how many chips you have, not you.

Why is the player "technically supposed to ask the dealer"? Where does that rule come from? I didn't see anything in Robert's Rules of Poker (although I may well have missed it) and you don't provide any other source for your rules.

2. Nope, it is also technically out of line for another player to interfere. They should only do so if it is a genuine question as the player cannot see the chips and the dealer is slow. Eg. if one player is in seat 1 and the other in seat 9, or one player is short sighted etc. If the player is trying to angle shoot or is stalling, and you don't like him, go ahead and interfere otherwise be polite and say nothing.

This answer is self-contradictory. If you believe that it is out of line for another player to comment, then another player shouldn't comment. You can't say a player shouldn't comment and then explain why a player should comment.

It's even worse to say that a third player should "go ahead and interfere". This is just nonsense, especially immediately after you say that it is "out of line for another player to interfere". You can have one position or the other - but you can't hold both simultaneously.

3. You are obligated to have your bigger chips visible to all players, if you do not have your chips stacked in a way so that they are visible you are at fault and should be given a warning. The dealer will inform you of this and ask that you restack your chips.

This is reasonable (although I think the use of formal words like 'warning' are a bit overdone).


Poker should be a pleasant activity. If we conduct ourselves with high morality and by acting in a positive manner, we make poker more accessible and welcoming to more players.

It is good to do morally good things for their own sake... but as a nice side effect, you end up welcoming more inexperienced players into the game who can then contribute to the prize pools and enjoyment that we all share.

[thret]

Fine.

1. Because whenever a player asks for a count, it is the dealers job to count the chips. The dealer is required to give an accurate count even if the player replies - although if both parties are satisfied with the players response, they may use their own discretion.
2. They shouldn't interfere, period. I said go ahead and interfere if you do not mind causing offence - specifically when either the dealer or the player is holding up the game.

I didn't refer to any rules because this is a question of etiquette. Asking for a chip count is like asking for time, it is not always appropriate. If Benson asks for a chip count, the player should either be silent or accurate in his reply and nobody else should speak because Gary is not a tool. If some scrub is asking for a count every hand he plays, I am replying with a guesstimate each time so that the player they are noobishly trying to get a read from doesn't feel compelled to say anything and the dealer doesn't feel compelled to count down the chips. But that is down to my judgement and I would do it with the intention of causing offence.